Rosecrans

[tony_gunter]

First question: Has anyone ever written a critical biography of William Rosecrans?

I've been digging around in his communications just to get a feel for what was going on the next department over from Vicksburg, and it's no wonder he rubbed everyone the wrong way. He's the poster child for "pick your battles," complaining about literally everything all the time.

He complains about not being able to create special forces units ("light battalions") from men hand-selected from other regiments. He's right, of course, but the power to create volunteer units is allotted to Congress and is not a battle that anyone wants to fight with Congress in the wake of reversals in late 1862. I suppose this was the precursor idea to the creation of Wilder's Lightning Brigade, which was a smashing success.

He complains about the department separation between himself and Grant. He's correct, the Tennessee is the natural boundary between the two, but does he really want to pick a fight about Grant having Henry and Donelson?

He complains about the paymaster arrangement.

He complains about his date of commission,

He complains about not having enough good division commanders.

He complains that too many troops are being reserved in Ohio.

He complains about the separation of command between army and navy.

Often his tone is one of condescension, almost to the point of saying "this is stupid," and often he's correct … but that's not the way to win favor with your bosses, especially when it's on an almost daily basis over every little thing.

Second question: why are there no tags for Rosecrans and Thomas under the famous people forum?

 

[major bill]

I have always wondered about Rosecrans. He seemed like a fairly good general. I will be at a military history convention in Chattanooga in May. Perhaps I should read up on the battle.

 

[major bill]

deleted this double post.

 

[Pat Answer]

I haven't read this, so I don't know if it fits the bill.

(I do appreciate the "he's likely right but going about it the wrong way" take. Generals are people too...)

 

[Stryker65]

He complains about the department separation between himself and Grant.
He complains about the paymaster arrangement.
He complains about his date of commission,
He complains about not having enough good division commanders.
He complains that too many troops are being reserved in Ohio.
He complains about the separation of command between army and navy.

It's giving McClellan, honestly...

My main gripe with him, though, is for making a gigantic staff of thirty officers, most of which he probably didn't need. Side note, however, most of these officers went on to achieve higher rank.

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

First question: Has anyone ever written a critical biography of William Rosecrans?

I've been digging around in his communications just to get a feel for what was going on the next department over from Vicksburg, and it's no wonder he rubbed everyone the wrong way. He's the poster child for "pick your battles," complaining about literally everything all the time.

He complains about not being able to create special forces units ("light battalions") from men hand-selected from other regiments. He's right, of course, but the power to create volunteer units is allotted to Congress and is not a battle that anyone wants to fight with Congress in the wake of reversals in late 1862. I suppose this was the precursor idea to the creation of Wilder's Lightning Brigade, which was a smashing success.

He complains about the department separation between himself and Grant. He's correct, the Tennessee is the natural boundary between the two, but does he really want to pick a fight about Grant having Henry and Donelson?

He complains about the paymaster arrangement.

He complains about his date of commission,

He complains about not having enough good division commanders.

He complains that too many troops are being reserved in Ohio.

He complains about the separation of command between army and navy.

Often his tone is one of condescension, almost to the point of saying "this is stupid," and often he's correct … but that's not the way to win favor with your bosses, especially when it's on an almost daily basis over every little thing.

Second question: why are there no tags for Rosecrans and Thomas under the famous people forum?

General Rosecrans seems like the Union's equivalent of Braxton Bragg!

 

[USS ALASKA]

The Edge of Glory: A Biography of General William S. Rosecrans, U.S.A. by William M. Lamers

Free reading

Major-General William Starke Rosecrans, U.S. Army

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/public/gdcmassbookdig/majorgeneralwill00knif/majorgeneralwill00knif.pdf

MAJOR GENERAL WILLIAM S. ROSECRANS AND THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE STAFF OF THE ARMY OF THE CUMBERLAND: A CASE STUDY
LIEUTENANT COLONEL ROBERT J. DALESSANDRO

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA404422.pdf

General Rosecrans

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwinzbjTwNCMAxWwFlkFHVf_II84FBAWegQIIBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fforgottenbooks.com%2Ffr%2Fdownload%2FMajorGeneralWilliamStarkRosecrans_10158898.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1x9NgCWhpJNVDZUBcm08KB&opi=89978449

"The Perfect Model of a Christian Hero": The Faith, Anti-Slaveryism, and Post-War Legacy of William S. Rosecrans by William B. Kurtz

https://www.jstor.org/stable/24584779

Rosecrans' staff at Chickamauga: the significance of Major General William S. Rosecrans' staff on the outcome of the Chickamauga Campaign.

Chickamauga - Battle of Chickamauga papers | South & Western Theaters

Ma'ams / Sirs - found a bunch of the papers on-line about the Battle of Chickamauga. Since we don't have a Chickamauga sub-forum, I figured I'd park them here. A much studied event by military members for advanced degrees... To start off with... Title; Staff ride handbook for the Battle of...

civilwartalk.com

HTHs,
USS ALASKA

 

[dlofting]

General Rosecrans seems like the Union's equivalent of Braxton Bragg!

I think Rosecrans was a more competent general and he did get along with his subordinates. It was his superiors that he had trouble with.....mostly of his own creation.

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

I think Rosecrans was a more competent general and he did get along with his subordinates. It was his superiors that he had trouble with.....mostly of his own creation.

There is indeed a difference if he got along with his subordinates.

 

[Rhea Cole]

There is a profound misunderstanding about Rosecrans. In January 1863 he commanded the 14th Army Corps & the Department of the Cumberland. His corps had won a brutal victory that cost (+/-) 1/3rd of his force.

The 14th Army Corps cavalry was almost nonexistent. Regiments that did exist had no horses, tack, traps or weapons. The artillery was a hodgepodge of types & calibers. Individual regiments had as many a seven types of muskets. 40% of them were smoothbores.

From the signal station atop the courthouse in Murfreesboro, looking south this is what Rosecrans saw. Between him & Chattanooga was 100 miles of the Highland Plateau.

You can count on the fingers of one hand the gaps that led to the summit. Behind this formidable barrier was a food desert extending to the Tennessee River. After crossing the river the march on Chattanooga could begin.

Rosecrans was uniquely qualified to stand up an army & its support elements for advance through 100 miles of challenging territory. How did he do that, you might ask?

Rosecrans was a member of the army's elite Corps of Engineers. He is credited with having the highest IQ of any Civil War generals. While teaching at West Point, Rosecrans made a study of what would be required if the 16,000 man army had to expand & fight a major war. This study was the blueprint Rosecrans used to stand up the three corps Army of the Cumberland.

When you study the origins of modern army units, a remarkable number of them came from the pages of Rosecrans' staff study & the entrepreneurial culture he encouraged.

Combat Engineers.

Armored Infantry.

Signal Corps.

Intelligence Gathering & Analysis.

Stood up a powerful cavalry corps.

Dedicated Railroad construction & Engineering Regiments.

Introduction of repeating rifles

Topological engineers mass production of maps, including a sun powered three color copy machine.

Reinvented the pontoon boat that facilitated the placing a double 2,000 foot crossing of the Tennessee River.

On the practical side, the Army of the Cumberland was rearmed with standard artillery & muskets.

The 240,000 man Department of the Cumberland was organized into a logistical juggernaut.

On January 3rd 1863 when Bragg withdrew to Shelbyville, almost none of the organizations listed existed anywhere except on the pages of Rosecrans' studies.

On numerous occasions Ole Rosey stood amid his men & made this pronouncement:

"If you lack anything, hound your officers until they hound me & I will see to it that you get what you need."

Rosecrans wasn't just talking. As stated above, Rosecrans made more demands of Stanton than all the other generals put together. He was the right man with the right plan in the right place at the right time.

 

[Rhea Cole]

Rosecrans as a fighting general is a complicated, complex question.

What other general defeated Robert E. Lee & liberated(+/-) of Virginia; defeated two howling banzai charge attacks at Iuka & Corinth; defeated the Army of Tennessee on December 31, 1862 - January 2, 1863; six moths later the Army of the Cumberland's Tullahoma Campaign consolidated atop Monteagle Mountain on July 4th; after crossing the Tennessee River Rosecrans marched into Chattanooga. Compare that record with any general you can name apart from Grant.

That being said… more later…

 

[J C J Barefoot]

Rosecrans as a fighting general is a complicated is a complex question.

What other general defeated Robert E. Lee & liberated(+/-) of Virginia; defeated two howling banzai charge attacks at Iuka & Corinth; defeated the Army of Tennessee on December 31, 1862 - January 2, 1863; six moths later the Army of the Cumberland's Tullahoma Campaign consolidated atop Monteagle Mountain on July 4th; after crossing the Tennessee River Rosecrans marched into Chattanooga. Compare that record with any general you can name apart rom Grant.

That being said… more later…

Outstanding summary Rhea.
Tullahoma was perhaps his greatest work don't you agree?

A most interesting man. His advanced knowledge did not end with logistic and organization. He was a critical thinker in theology and revealed religion. He went to West Point a committed Methodist and while there almost abandoned Protestant Christianity. In a bookstore in NY he found a book called The End of Religious Controversy which ultimately lead him to full communion with the Roman Catholic Church----something that simply was not done at that time. His room mate at West Point was Longstreet whom he wold face at Chicamauga and who, after the war himself would become a Catholic convert like his old roomie. Rosie is kicked around because Grant really didn't like him and because of his nervous manner under fire.

 

[Rhea Cole]

There are endless anecdotes written by individuals who saw Grant during crises. He would sit quietly whittling a stick, listening to the movement of the firing. Not so William Stark Rosecrans.

No general officer exposed himself the way Rosecrans did. In almost every battle his coat was splattered with the brains of a subordinate. The soldiers were unabashedly inspired to see Ole Rosey riding his charger in front of the firing line… officers no so much.

Barely in control of himself, Rosecrans rode up to officers shouting incoherent orders in a jackhammer stutter. The consequences are obvious & inexplicable.

Note: I became a living history volunteer at Stones River in 1994. No telling how many times I have discussed Rosecrans with visitors. No telling how many historians I have heard discuss his generalship. To this day I am puzzled at how such a sharp analytical engineer's mind also harbored the incoherent stutterer when under the stress of battle.

 

[Rhea Cole]

Outstanding summary Rhea.
Tullahoma was perhaps his greatest work don't you agree?

A most interesting man. His advanced knowledge did not end with logistic and organization. He was a critical thinker in theology and revealed religion. He went to West Point a committed Methodist and while there almost abandoned Protestant Christianity. In a bookstore in NY he found a book called The End of Religious Controversy which ultimately lead him to full communion with the Roman Catholic Church----something that simply was not done at that time. His room mate at West Point was Longstreet whom he wold face at Chicamauga and who, after the war himself would become a Catholic convert like his old roomie. Rosie is kicked around because Grant really didn't like him and because of his nervous manner under fire.

There nobody more militantly devout than a convert. Grant had no tolerance for generals who did not do what he told them to do.

Grant had a visceral understanding of taking & exploiting initiative. Rosecrans, on he other hand, paused & regrouped when Grant would have driven all the harder.

 

[dlofting]

Note: I became a living history volunteer at Stones River in 1994. No telling how many times I have discussed Rosecrans with visitors. No telling how many historians I have heard discuss his generalship. To this day I am puzzled at how such a sharp analytical engineer's mind also harbored the incoherent stutterer when under the stress of battle.

I think Rosecrans needed time to work things out in his extremely logical and organized brain. He didn't function well under pressure. He was considering so many things at once that he was overwhelmed if he didn't have the time and space to sort them out.

 

[uaskme]

A lot of Daylight between Rosey and Bragg.

Lamers is the go to Bio.

 

[Rhea Cole]

I think Rosecrans needed time to work things out in his extremely logical and organized brain. He didn't function well under pressure. He was considering so many things at once that he was overwhelmed if he didn't have the time and space to sort them out.

That is a good way to frame it. I have come to the conclusion that having Rosecrans commanding the 240,000 man continent spanning Department of the Cumberland's logistical system & Thomas commanding the Army of the Cumberland would have been a very powerful combination. They were a real team. The whole was definitely greater than the sum of the parts.

What other team of generals could have done what they did? Consider how pathetic the response to the challenge of Middle Tennessee would have been under McClellan, for example.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

I think Rosecrans needed time to work things out in his extremely logical and organized brain. He didn't function well under pressure. He was considering so many things at once that he was overwhelmed if he didn't have the time and space to sort them out.

It's stuff like that that make people wonder if Rosecrans was a high-functioning autistic (what used to be called Aspergers).

 

[Rhea Cole]

It's stuff like that that make people wonder if Rosecrans was a high-functioning autistic (what used to be called Aspergers).

My dad was an engineer. I am an artist. Some of us just don't think like everyone else. That doesn't mean that it is a condition with a name to it.

 

[Belfoured]

My dad was an engineer. I am an artist. Some of us just don't think like everyone else. That doesn't mean that it is a condition with a name to it.

I agree and psychoanalysis 150 years later is always risky guesswork. I do think @Joshism raises a legitimate question given Rosecrans' extremes that could be a sign of a DSM V condition in some degree.