Rosecrans

[TallTallMan]

I agree and psychoanalysis 150 years later is always risky guesswork. I do think @Joshism raises a legitimate question given Rosecrans' extremes that could be a sign of a DSM V condition in some degree.

Mr. Jackson seems to fit the bill more to me. Not to stereotype, but he has the autistic traits I've observed, at least in those I've met. I don't see Rosecrans that way.

 

[TallTallMan]

For my two-cents-worth, I think he was a great general who lost his senses at the worst moment he ever could. His head-butting with Grant, and his Democratic politics (the supposed, exaggerated "fifth column" of the ACW) explain his bad reputation until the last 15 years. I kind-of like him, so I may not be a balanced commentator.

 

[Belfoured]

Mr. Jackson seems to fit the bill more to me. Not to stereotype, but he has the autistic traits I've observed, at least in those I've met. I don't see Rosecrans that way.

Could be. I wasn't specifically focused on that disorder. Given that this is all speculative, I won't raise the possibility of NPD features in another general who shall remain nameless.

 

[TallTallMan]

Could be. I wasn't specifically focused on that disorder. Given that this is all speculative, I won't raise the possibility of NPD features in another general who shall remain nameless.

He'll be brought up soon anyway.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

Some of us just don't think like everyone else. That doesn't mean that it is a condition with a name to it.

When a small number of people are noticeably different in some way than everyone else in a fairly consistent manner there absolutely should be a term for it.

Why they're different and whether that difference is a good, bad, or neutral are seperate questions from recognizing and defining that the difference exists.

 

[Rhea Cole]

When a small number of people are noticeably different in some way than everyone else in a fairly consistent manner there absolutely should be a term for it.

Why they're different and whether that difference is a good, bad, or neutral are seperate questions from recognizing and defining that the difference exists.

A person was not selected as an officer in the Corps of Engineers without being extraordinary. After he left the army, he & partners built the first oil refinery west of the mountains. Bragg married into a sugar plantation… a life that a 1st Century Roman would have fit right into. What a contrast; Rosecrans was on the cutting edge of the Industrial Revolution.

 

[wausaubob]

He wasn't a good combat officer. It was hard for him to realize that once the battle is joined, the commander cannot achieve much. The subordinate officers have to co-ordinate with each other. With respect to the rest of things that the commanding officer must do, he was brilliant. One of Rosecrans' problems was that the Cumberland theater did not have the Atlantic coast, the eastern railroad network, nor the Mississippi River. His department was not a high priority, and all the logistics there were more expensive. The Kentucky and Tennessee railroads were making his situation difficult. Those problems began to be solved when Grant took over in that area, and then Grant and Sherman planned the Georgia offensive. The eventual victory at Chattanooga won by Rosecrans' former army benefitted from improved logistics once Meigs went there and the US militarized the railroads.
Grant acknowledged that Rosecrans' plans, including building steam barges on the middle Tennessee River, were excellent.
Rosecrans may not have obtained the special forces units he advocated, but it seems that they did exist in Army of the Ohio. And Sheridan's cavalry contained many troopers who would wear Confederate uniforms and learned how to speak "Confederate".

 

[wausaubob]

Rosecrans should have been retained in western Virginia. He would have saved lives and money and that would have helped shorten the war. At the very least, when McClellan was relieved and Burnside promoted, Halleck should have insisted that Rosecrans be brought east to be the executive officer.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

A person was not selected as an officer in the Corps of Engineers without being extraordinary. After he left the army, he & partners built the first oil refinery west of the mountains. Bragg married into a sugar plantation… a life that a 1st Century Roman would have fit right into. What a contrast; Rosecrans was on the cutting edge of the Industrial Revolution.

I don't think there's any doubt Rosecrans was highly intelligent. However, intelligence has no bearing on neurodiversity or mental health. Nor does being a genius make you a good leader.

Bragg running a sugar plantation says as much about the antebellum Southern definition of success as anything about his own abilities. Southerners rarely aspired to new and inventive business enterprises; that was Yankee stuff.

Interestingly, Rosecrans was part of the same West Point class as George W. Rains who was quite the inventor himself.

 

[Rhea Cole]

I don't think there's any doubt Rosecrans was highly intelligent. However, intelligence has no bearing on neurodiversity or mental health. Nor does being a genius make you a good leader.

Bragg running a sugar plantation says as much about the antebellum Southern definition of success as anything about his own abilities. Southerners rarely aspired to new and inventive business enterprises; that was Yankee stuff.

Interestingly, Rosecrans was part of the same West Point class as George W. Rains who was quite the inventor himself.

Rosecrans was known for having a habitual sardonic smile that observers thought was condescending. It was anything but.

While working on an ironically titled "safety lantern" it blew up. He was terribly burned. He was bed ridden & homebound for two years. The crisis of the war brought him back out.

To cover the facial scars he grew a beard. There was nothing he could do about the scaring that left him with a look of constant bemusement.

 

[uaskme]

I agree and psychoanalysis 150 years later is always risky guesswork. I do think @Joshism raises a legitimate question given Rosecrans' extremes that could be a sign of a DSM V condition in some degree.

Hilarious. He function well under pressure at 2nd Corinth, no help from Grant. Iuka with no help from Usless Grant. Then again at Stones River when his right flank collapsed.

He did have a habit of not sleeping during these engagements. Engagement during Chickamauga lasted 10 days or so. He did suffer sleep deprivation during the battle. Definitely affected his decision making.

 

[Belfoured]

Hilarious. He function well under pressure at 2nd Corinth, no help from Grant. Iuka with no help from Usless Grant. Then again at Stones River when his right flank collapsed.

He did have a habit of not sleeping during these engagements. Engagement during Chickamauga lasted 10 days or so. He did suffer sleep deprivation during the battle. Definitely affected his decision making.

Hilarious. He not function well at Chickamauga. Could be no sleep, could be no sleep in part, could be something else. I'm the one who said it's risky to assess anybody's mental state and the reasons 150 years later. You disagree. Party on, ...

 

[The General]

Maybe it's just luck (circumstance), but every battle that Rosecrans was in either he stumbled into it, or the Confederates got the drop on him.

 

[uaskme]

Hilarious. He not function well at Chickamauga. Could be no sleep, could be no sleep in part, could be something else. I'm the one who said it's risky to assess anybody's mental state and the reasons 150 years later. You disagree. Party on, ...

I didn't say he function well at Chickamauga. However he did every where else. Also the odds were against him. Should have gotten shellacked, but pull out of it and started to recover. He had advanced 60 miles beyond his rail head. Had 4,000 wagons. Getting there would have been a victory if it was Grant or Sherman. Sherman failed miserably at Chattanooga and is given credit for just getting there.

Jim Ogden and David Powell are pretty good Historians. They both say he was sleep deprived. No evidence that Rosecrans slumped from pressure anywhere. Most who understand Chickamauga understand that.

I didn't call you out. Don't wet yourself.

 

[DanSBHawk]

Hilarious. He function well under pressure at 2nd Corinth, no help from Grant.

False. He did not function well under pressure at Corinth. From Steven Woodworth's Nothing But Victory:

 

[TallTallMan]

 

[Stryker65]

Rosecrans was known for having a habitual sardonic smile that observers thought was condescending. It was anything but.

While working on an ironically titled "safety lantern" it blew up. He was terribly burned. He was bed ridden & homebound for two years. The crisis of the war brought him back out.

To cover the facial scars he grew a beard. There was nothing he could do about the scaring that left him with a look of constant bemusement.

To me, his pictures just look like he's happy.

 

[TallTallMan]

To me, his pictures just look like he's happy.

Same for me.

 

[J C J Barefoot]

There have been commentators and historians , usually those critical of Grant, that maintain Grant saw Rosie as a threat to his own advancement.
(See book by Frank Varney)
As to his capabilities let's remember that Lincoln sent him a telegram offering him to be his VP running mate in the 1864 election. The historical record suggests that the message in response was held back from Lincoln by those in the War department that hated William-- and so Abe turned to Johnson. The fact that Lincoln would make this offer casts some understanding on his capabilities. Rosie also served as a Democrat member of Congress from California. He maintaied a strong post war-friendship with President Hayes.

 

[J C J Barefoot]

I agree and psychoanalysis 150 years later is always risky guesswork. I do think @Joshism raises a legitimate question given Rosecrans' extremes that could be a sign of a DSM V condition in some degree.

Yes that is true in most all cases. The one exception that comes to mind is that Jubal Early swore Stonewall Jackson was out of his head. He once commented that he thought his next orders from Stonewall would be to attack the north pole!