Southern Rail Difficulties

[steamman]

Your next post (#34) provided some amenable solutions to the problem of manpower; realistically speaking. I have read accounts concerning Tredegar employees as well as the mining and niter bureau where demands are made for their men to be exempt from conscription. Also the deeper south still had powder and shot factories that lasted through to the last 3 or 4 months of the war.
Even Florida was pressing for exemption from the draft due to the need for their citizens to harvest and manage crops and cattle, and guard home property. Georgia and North Carolina were in continual arbitration with Richmond authorities regarding the same principle. With Tennessee and Kentucky being occupied in 1863 by Federal force, and Mississippi and Louisiana also under the heel of Union might, the confederate ideal of protecting it's citizens is shattered. I agree with @leftyhunter on post #35 about imported workers, though it didn't stop German immigrants up north. Every resource the confederacy had was dwindling with no way to build morale except battle success. No wonder they fought so hard, and talked so boldly.
The medical department was able to use disabled men, and the ones' still healing for hospital purposes. Two examples of successful management, and yet the railroads get short shrift. I am not sure where to place the blame??
Thanks all for the reply, and especially the question by @Pat Answer which keeps the ball in court, so to speak.
Lubliner.

Yankees in manufacturing and railroads left the South in 1860 also.

 

[steamman]

I would just add that the Union had an overwhelming advantage in attracting immigrants since they could pay immigrants in an international convertible currency which they could send to their families overseas vs Confederate monopoly money.
Certainly much safe to travel to the US on any non US flagged vessel then trying to run the blockade or travel to the Atlantic South via Mexico through Texas.
Leftyhunter

I think that there was more valuable cargo than men for blockade runners too.

 

[steamman]

Good Monday morning!! I have spent most of Sunday evening studying the Link below provided by @DaveBrt;

Confederate Railroad Construction Plans

First let me make it clear I haven't much practice in writing technical briefs on economic transactions, so this wasn't easy.
But I have had success in seeing a clear misunderstanding on proposals, their acceptance, and negotiations.
Here are some facts reflecting the growth of the administration with the planned railroad between Selma and Demopolis.

In 1861 there were 3 Administrators; a President, Chief Engineer, and Secretary/Treasurer. The Alabama and Mississippi railroad advertised on April 4, 1861 it was now open for passengers from New Bern, Alabama to Selma, covering 129 miles, point to point, with seven stations between them. It took 3 to 3 hours and forty minutes each way. The war began.

In 1862, the administrative officers totaled seven, adding a Director, two more engineers, and another secretary/treasurer.
In 1863 a total of 14 officers were present, six more directors, one master machinist position, one road master position, but less one engineer.
In 1864 this number was reduced to twelve administrative officers but added one more President. In 1865 it was again reduced back to three administrators.

The major supplier for the Company in 1861 was J. R. Anderson & Co.

Lubliner. (cont.).

David liked to micromanage rather than deligate

 

[steamman]

I read up a bit on the Selma Raid in 1865 last night. From what I learn so far that whole area between Selma southward to Montgomery had not been trammeled by northern troops. The object of the raid entrusted to Wilson was to destroy the factories and production centers, and cutting into the regions yet untouched. Of course the second-largest armory of the south was in that region. Because this area was a center for confederate rally points, such as West Point, Demopolis, and the Cavalry headquartered in this area, it was heavily guarded by these troops. Constant raids were committed to crossing the Tennessee River to try and halt the advancements of the Federal Army. With the losses and encroachments constantly threatening their means, and with the major troops in continual retreat, the morale was devastated. So the spirit of the confederacy also was a factor, where each problem fractured and widened the gap of recovery. That old saying of 'a penny short and a day too late' is always on the horizon.
Lubliner.

In my opinion, areas like Selma and Georgia, were away from where northern steamboat could easily get too.

 

[Lubliner]

In my opinion, areas like Selma and Georgia, were away from where northern steamboat could easily get too.

Generally the places that were landlocked without good access to the ocean were breadbaskets for the south. The region in Alabama focused on here was so, and remained until the raid. The Shenandoah was productive in spite of the armies moving over it until Sheridan scorched it. Likewise the Weldon RR was able to bring food and supplies to centralized depots from as far south as Florida. The southern railroads were consequential and productive to the best of their abilities for supporting the confederate armies. This is a critical point for northern focus. The blockade runners possibly number one. The fall of the confederacy went hand and hand with the destruction of depots and supply lines, as well as the coastal ports. The inland areas mostly had waterways to help with transportation, but the rails were necessary to keep up with any advantage to be had. Thank you @steamman.
Lubliner.

 

[leftyhunter]

I think that there was more valuable cargo than men for blockade runners too.

A skilled worker is worth more then his weight in gold. On the other hand there was simply no incentive for skilled workers to immigrate to the CSA.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

The lack of manpower was caused by the need to have every abled bodied white man under arms fighting for independence.

Made worse by Confederate desertion and defections to the Union Army to the time of 104k Southern white men per " Lincoln's Loyalists Union soldiers from the Confederacy" Richard Current North East University Press. The above figures do not include Unionist guerrillas ,Homeguards plus free lance bandits.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

Lots more white men.

Or racial equality. By the 1860s there were racially intergrated armies in Coloumbia , Venezuela and Brazil. On the other hand all was not Kumbya see the Brazilian Navy " Revolt of the Lash".
On the other hand the Confederacy was not fighting for racial equality.
Leftyhunter

 

[Pat Answer]

Lots more white men.

That's a "Haha" with an accompanying groan/roll eyes, but a "haha" nonetheless...

 

[leftyhunter]

That's a "Haha" with an accompanying groan/roll eyes, but a "haha" nonetheless...

Historically speaking every white dominated society in conflict will recruit men of color into it's military and or police force.
The British Army under Lord Dunsmore had such a unit in 1775 by offering men of color freedom from slavery for themselves and families of they fought the Colonial Rebels. This unit was successful in combat but obviously to small on its own to beat on its own to beat the combined Colonial Rebels Army plus the French and Spanish Army.
Different white nations have taken different tacks on utilizing non white soldiers. You can PM me for details.
Leftyhunter

 

[steamman]

Historically speaking every white dominated society in conflict will recruit men of color into it's military and or police force.
The British Army under Lord Dunsmore had such a unit in 1775 by offering men of color freedom from slavery for themselves and families of they fought the Colonial Rebels. This unit was successful in combat but obviously to small on its own to beat on its own to beat the combined Colonial Rebels Army plus the French and Spanish Army.
Different white nations have taken different tacks on utilizing non white soldiers. You can PM me for details.
Leftyhunter

Except the South waited too late.

 

[steamman]

Or racial equality. By the 1860s there were racially intergrated armies in Coloumbia , Venezuela and Brazil. On the other hand all was not Kumbya see the Brazilian Navy " Revolt of the Lash".
On the other hand the Confederacy was not fighting for racial equality.
Leftyhunter

Few if any of the others were either. The South let it's belief system get in the way of practicallity

 

[steamman]

A skilled worker is worth more then his weight in gold. On the other hand there was simply no incentive for skilled workers to immigrate to the CSA.
Leftyhunter

I believe that, but to who?
Private enterprise might value perfumes and silks over men when allocating scarce space on a blockade runner. The South might value arms over men.

 

[steamman]

I believe that, but to who?
Private enterprise might value perfumes and silks over men when allocating scarce space on a blockade runner. The South might value arms over men.

 

[Montbrun]

There's an excellent article on this topic in the latest issue of "North & South" Magazine - "Rails to Oblivion: The Decline of Confederate Railroads in the Civil War."

 

[DaveBrt]

There's an excellent article on this topic in the latest issue of "North & South" Magazine - "Rails to Oblivion: The Decline of Confederate Railroads in the Civil War."

That was written in 2002 as a student paper at an Army college.

 

[leftyhunter]

Except the South waited too late.

True enough the Confederacy needed to of enlisted black soldiers by 1861 either in intergrated or segregated units but either way slavery would have to be abolished which would be a bridge to far for the Confederacy.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

I believe that, but to who?
Private enterprise might value perfumes and silks over men when allocating scarce space on a blockade runner. The South might value arms over men.

It would of taken a massive investment in terms of creating factories, raw materials and skilled manpower for the Confederacy to have a viable railroad industry. To make things worse said Industrial equipment and imported skilled manpower required a viable internationally recognized currency or specie both in desperately short supply in the Confederacy.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

Few if any of the others were either. The South let it's belief system get in the way of practicallity

By 1861 as mentioned above the concept of an intergrated army was not new. Soldiers of color had already proved their worth in the American Revolutionary War and especially in the Independence struggle of Hatti. The Confederacy just couldn't bring itself to do what was necessary to recruit soldiers of color but the again doing so would contradict their politcal rational for having a war in the first place.
Leftyhunter

 

[Lubliner]

Just like a runaway train, how did I miss this yesterday! Thank you @Montbrun for bringing that article to attention, and @DaveBrt for locating the pdf link.

By 1861 as mentioned above the concept of an intergrated army was not new. Soldiers of color had already proved their worth in the American Revolutionary War and especially in the Independence struggle of Hatti. The Confederacy just couldn't bring itself to do what was necessary to recruit soldiers of color but the again doing so would contradict their politcal rational for having a war in the first place.
Leftyhunter

@steamman has been making some good points. Why should men be imported as laborers when all the infrastructure was done at the expense of slave labor. These workers did more than just pick cotton. They had learned sets of skills that were vastly more important to the Confederacy if they remained in that role of construction, blacksmithing, toolmaking, etc. Picks, axes, shovels, pikes, all these could be produced by the men held in bondage. If southern recruiters went overseas and actively recruited for Army manpower, how would the foreigners respond? We know the blockade runners did, and sometimes took the harbor crew with them when putting out to sea.
Thank you for your insight. It is truly helpful.
Lubliner.