Random Thoughts on Iuka

[Sid J.]

This overlays the historical on the modern highways.

 

[Nathan Towne]

Putting aside the extremely crude representation of the fighting, this shows you the road network as it was detailed by Cozzens.

 

[tony_gunter]

Putting aside the extremely crude representation of the fighting, this shows you the road network as it was detailed by Cozzens.

View attachment 519373

That's not the Fulton Road is it?

The corps of engineers map has the ridge on which that road runs labeled as the heights dominating the Fulton Road.

The Fulton Road would be the road farther east.

 

[DanSBHawk]

Because the Confederates had already detected Rosecrans' presence. They wouldn't stick around for another day, regardless.

I don't think Price would have evacuated.

Price went to Iuka looking for a fight. He wasn't enroute to Bragg. He was in that area because he hoped to find Rosecrans' army and defeat it before it could be reinforced. When he didn't find Rosecrans' army at Iuka, Price began messaging Van Dorn so they could link up and defeat Rosecrans. In the couple days before the battle, Price had no intention of going east. He was trying to find a way to engage Rosecrans.

In the evening, after the battle, Price was even planning on resuming the battle in the morning. He wasn't planning on evacuating. He knew there were federals on the road towards Burnsville, but he thought he could delay them while he finished off Rosecrans. Maury had to convince him of the danger of the situation, and of the need to escape. And this was after the battle had occurred!

So if Rosecrans had posted his forces at Barnetts and Cartersville late in the day on the 19th, and resumed the march north on both roads just before dawn, I think Price would have still been in Iuka.

If for some reason Price got spooked and felt the need to escape, he definitely wouldn't have attempted a night march east through the Bear Creek bottom. He would have tried to break through on one of the roads south. He may have escaped by pushing through, but then it basically turns out the same as it did in real life so it doesn't make much of a difference.

The only way for the pincer to work was to cover both roads. If covering both roads meant delaying the battle until the morning, then it should have been delayed.

 

[tony_gunter]

View attachment 519368


This overlays the historical on the modern highways.

Of all the places they could have built a HWY 72 bypass, they had to take it DIRECTLY OVER THE BATTLEFIELD.

And … it's Iuka. Population 3000. Do you really need a bypass?

 

[Nathan Towne]

That's not the Fulton Road is it?

The corps of engineers map has the ridge on which that road runs labeled as the heights dominating the Fulton Road.

The Fulton Road would be the road farther east.

Can you show that section of the map from the Corps of Engineers?

As for the above comment from the other user, the Confederate force was already planning to depart Iuka prior to the operation being set into motion. There is a lot more to that discussion that way.

 

[tony_gunter]

Can you show that section of the map from the Corps of Engineers?

As for the above comment, the Confederate force was already planning to depart Iuka prior to the operation being set into motion, so that doesn't really make all that much sense that way.

Oh sorry …

Map of the battle of Iuka, Mississippi, showing the positions of the United States and Confederate troops on the 19th of September 1862

Scale 1:6336. LC Civil War Maps (2nd ed.), 273 "The United States forces are shown in blue [and] the Confederate forces are shown in red." Detailed map indicating roads, the "route to heights commanding Fulton Road," street pattern and buildings in Iuka, houses and names of residents in outlying...

www.loc.gov

I think the road labeled Bay Springs Road on your map is just a farm road and the road labeled Fulton Road is actually Big Springs Road (both Fulton and Big Springs are to the south of Iuka, although Big Springs is now a lake).

 

[Nathan Towne]

Oh sorry …

Map of the battle of Iuka, Mississippi, showing the positions of the United States and Confederate troops on the 19th of September 1862

Scale 1:6336. LC Civil War Maps (2nd ed.), 273 "The United States forces are shown in blue [and] the Confederate forces are shown in red." Detailed map indicating roads, the "route to heights commanding Fulton Road," street pattern and buildings in Iuka, houses and names of residents in outlying...

www.loc.gov

I think the road labeled Big Springs Road on your map is just a farm road and the road labeled Fulton Road is actually Big Springs Road (both Fulton and Big Springs are to the south of Iuka, although Big Springs is now a lake).

On the Corps of Engineers map the road which Cozzens interpreted as the Bay Springs Road is labeled as "Route to Heights Commanding Fulton Road."

 

[tony_gunter]

On the Corps of Engineers map the road which Cozzens interpreted as the Bay Springs Road is labeled as "Route to Heights Commanding Fulton Road."

The heights in that direction is what Cozzens labeled the Fulton Road.

If that's the heights commanding the road, the Fulton Road is that road to the east.

Bay Springs Road then would be the parallel road running along those heights.

 

[Nathan Towne]

The heights in that direction is what Cozzens labeled the Fulton Road.

If that's the heights commanding the road, the Fulton Road is that road to the east.

Bay Springs Road then would be the parallel road running along those heights.

You are stating that you interpret the Fulton road to be the road running through "Timberfelled?" I take it to be the road running south along Bottom Pasture.

Lamers, in his biography on Rosecrans, interpreted that road labelled as being the Bay Springs Road as the Bay Springs Road, as well, stating that it no longer exists (in 1962) and is marked by an indentation as to where it used to be.

 

[tony_gunter]

You are stating that you interpret the Fulton road to be the road running through "Timberfelled?"

Not quite, it's off to the east a bit. On here, there are two roughly parallel roads running south. What I think is the Fulton Road connects to that road through Timberfelled.

Bay Springs Road is the other. I was thinking the road on the heights ran off to Bay Springs, but it actually connects to Fulton Road after zigzagging along the heights.

 

[Nathan Towne]

Not quite, it's off to the east a bit. On here, there are two roughly parallel roads running south. What I think is the Fulton Road connects to that road through Timberfelled.

Bay Springs Road is the other. I was thinking the road on the heights ran off to Bay Springs, but it actually connects to Fulton Road after zigzagging along the heights.

View attachment 519404

Well, they appear to be tiny by-roads which connect up that way.

From the 1876 Corps of Engineers Map, the roads cut through north of that farmstead/home which I can't precisely make out the name of (Dubins?).

I am not sure how you are coming to these conclusions regarding what road is what?

 

[DanSBHawk]

Here's a very simple map from the Comte de Paris book:

 

[tony_gunter]

Well, they appear to be tiny by-roads which connect up that way.

From the 1876 Corps of Engineers Map, the roads cut through north of that farmstead/home which I can't precisely make out the name of (Dubins?).

I am not sure how you are coming to these conclusions regarding what road is what?

Fulton was established 20 years before Iuka existed. That's why the major north / south road is about a mile east of Iuka, that was the Fulton Road before Iuka existed. The road running on the heights labeled by Cozzens as the Fulton Road appears to just be a connection to the Fulton Road from the farms southeast of town. That's why it's not labeled as Fulton Road on the corps map, and instead "the heights dominating the Fulton Road."

Bay Springs is probably a ghost town now covered in water by Bay Springs Lake. So the Bay Springs Road would be a parallel road traveling south.

 

[Nathan Towne]

Here's a very simple map from the Comte de Paris book:

View attachment 519440

Where the word "Route" is, that is part of the Jacinto Road. That is a bend in the Jacinto road.

The Comte De Paris has it laid out as Cozzens did.

 

[Nathan Towne]

Fulton was established 20 years before Iuka existed. That's why the major north / south road is about a mile east of Iuka, that was the Fulton Road before Iuka existed. The road running on the heights labeled by Cozzens as the Fulton Road appears to just be a connection to the Fulton Road from the farms southeast of town. That's why it's not labeled as Fulton Road on the corps map, and instead "the heights dominating the Fulton Road."

Bay Springs is probably a ghost town now covered in water by Bay Springs Lake. So the Bay Springs Road would be a parallel road traveling south.

There was a town in Mississippi known as Bay Springs which existed at the time, as well. It was east of Baldwyn.

The move of Price's forces towards Iuka commenced on September 11th. Henry Little, commanding the lead division had already been pulled back from Saltillo back to Baldwyn (scouts from Hamilton's Division had seen this move and reported back on September 6th) and then on the 11th moved from Baldwyn eastwards towards Bay Springs, all along a series of winding roads, while Dabney Maury's Division moved towards Bald Springs, as well (if I remember correctly via the Saltillo-Bald Springs road, but don't quote me on that). Little's Division reached Marietta after sunset/dark on September 11th and he stated in his diary that they reached about a mile east of Bald Springs after their march on the 12th, where they encamped that night, the night of September 12th. Armstrong's brigade then hit Iuka on the 13th, as Price's infantry moved northwards.

 

[tony_gunter]

There is a current town in Mississippi known as Bay Springs Which existed at the time, as well.

The move of Price's forces commenced on September 11th. Henry Little, commanding the lead division had already been pulled back from Saltillo back to Baldwyn (scouts from Hamilton's Division had seen this move and reported back on September 6th) and then on the 11th moved from Baldwyn eastwards towards Bay Springs, all along a series of winding roads, while Dabney Maury moved towards Bald Springs (I believe via via the Saltillo-Bald Springs road, but don't quote me on that). Little's Division reached Marietta after sunset/dark on September 11th and he stated in his diary that they reached about a mile east of Bald Springs after their march on the 12th, where they encamped that night, the night of September 12th.

Different Bay Springs, that's near Meridian.

Bay Springs (north?)east of Baldwyn was a factory town that burned in 1885.

Bay Springs Lake - NatchezTraceTravel.com

Bay Springs Lake is a reservoir on the Tennessee-Tombigbee Waterway in northeast Mississippi. It is impounded by the Jamie Whitten Lock and Dam.

www.natcheztracetravel.com

 

[Nathan Towne]

Different Bay Springs, that's near Meridian.

Bay Springs (north?)east of Baldwyn was a factory town that burned in 1885.

Bay Springs Lake - NatchezTraceTravel.com

Bay Springs Lake is a reservoir on the Tennessee-Tombigbee Waterway in northeast Mississippi. It is impounded by the Jamie Whitten Lock and Dam.

www.natcheztracetravel.com

This Bay Springs was east of Baldwyn. It was estimated as being only eight miles east of Baldwyn, but the roads to get there from Baldwyn stretched out for many more miles as they wound through other hamlets and the like.

I am not seeing how you are formulating this in terms of the road which the Comte de Paris highlighted as being the Fulton road was not actually the Fulton road?

 

[tony_gunter]

This Bay Springs was east of Baldwyn. It was estimated as being only eight miles east of Baldwyn, but the roads to get there from Baldwyn stretched out for many more miles as they wound through other hamlets and the like.

I am not seeing how you are formulating this in terms of the road which the Comte de Paris highlighted as being the Fulton road was not actually the Fulton road?

Take Iuka off the map completely.

Now you just have a road that runs from Eastport to Fulton, and the ridge dominating it is empty. I think portions of that road to Eastport still exist, and it's still called Fulton Road although it no longer goes south of 72.

 

[Nathan Towne]

Take Iuka off the map completely.

Now you just have a road that runs from Eastport to Fulton, and the ridge dominating it is empty. I think portions of that road to Eastport still exist, and it's still called Fulton Road although it no longer goes south of 72.

Where was Fulton at the time? I know of the Fulton of today, but not where Fulton was at the time. Why would the Conte de Paris have marked the roads as he did?