Belfoured
Colonel
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2019
No - see PMAre you implying I have an established agenda? If so, I'd love to know what it is.
No - see PMAre you implying I have an established agenda? If so, I'd love to know what it is.
What are the most important sources you think he overlooked?
He's of the opinion that Nathaniel Lyon pushed Missouri into chaos.
Lyon is someone whose reputation has seemed to decline over time with no real defenders. Which is especially rare for a martyr like Lyon.
Rafuse's opinion of Lyon is shared by Piston & Hatcher in their modern study of Wilson's Creek.
I certainly see how Lyon's zealotry probably lead him to make a number of suboptimal choices. However, Missouri had enough pro-Confederate sentiment, including the governor, that a peaceful solution was not possible.
A particularly large issue was the significant German immigration population in St. Louis was strongly pro-Union and the pro-Confederate faction was racially prejudiced against them. Kentucky and Maryland didn't have a comparable kind of tension, even though they had their own Union and Confederate divisions.
I have objection to Rafuse's use of misleading terms. He calls an invasion of the South with overwhelming force a conciliation policy. This is confusing. I suppose a question has to be asked if that was conciliatory…
Blair and Lyon used instead a confrontational policy… I don't see any explanation for the use of these terms…
The whole book is about explaining what Mac was doing in a political context, but when he got into Mac's head to explain his motives it read like pure fiction to me.
Hmm what do you mean exactly?I think McClellan's motives and his politics are related, but not conflated.
Motives set his goals; politics defined how he tried to achieve those goals.
The fact that he didn't have the experience for the responsibility thrown at him was never addressed in this book, I don't recall, but Grant did say that part of Mac's challenge was that he was too young for the responsibility and unlike all of the other great Union generals at the end of the war, he did not fight his way along and up.I don't think McClellan had enough hard experience in the US/Mexican war to appreciate the importance of camp engineering and adequate nutrition. Men who had been to California and to solve the basic quartermaster and commissary problems may have had an advantage over McClellan who skipped several grades to become the commanding major general in mid 1861. In terms of tactics McClellan had a lot to learn. How much of the work he did formed the basis for an army that endured 3.5 years of frustration and finally endured to victory?
Hmm what do you mean exactly?
I have to be honest that my recent threads asking when someone can tell a book is not for them were motivated by this book. The book seemingly starts off on a tangent and I actually gave up reading it, but picked it back up because I was interest in the controversial Mac and I know he is taboo in the forum for the polemics just mentioning him cause. I wanted to get two sides of the opinions on him. Therefore I read Sears the Young Napoleon, then a few other subjects so that I wouldn't be burned out by the topic (Demon of Unrest was among those I read) then came back to this.I tried to read this earlier this year but bailed somewhere in the first 30 pages. I am going to try again in 25. It's not an easy read especially early on.
Big picture answer, loved it.McClellan's motivation was a desire to save the Union, which soon evolved into a messianic desire to be the savior of the USA. His politics dictated how he went about doing that saving - namely, Soft War.
I don't think everything Mac did can be explained by Whiggish principles. For one thing there were other Whiggish generals who succeeded—Grant the most notable—and there were issues of personality, personal ambition and rivalry that are not explored in this book.