Confederate War Aims

[Lost Cause]

I'm not familiar with this. Rebforever alluded to the same thing yesterday but didn't go into detail. How did Lincoln personally benefit?

In Dec 1864, Lincoln sent correspondence to General Canby who opposed cotton trade. The following is an excerpt.

"As to cotton. By the external blockade, the price is made certainly six times as great as it was. And yet the enemy gets through at least one sixth part as much in a given period, say a year, as if there were no blockade, and receives as much for it, as he would for a full crop in time of peace. The effect in substance is, that we give him six ordinary crops, without the trouble of producing any but the first; and at the same time leave his fields and his laborers free to produce provisions. You know how this keeps up his armies, and procures supplies from abroad. For other reasons we cannot give up the blockade, and hence it becomes immensely important to us to get the cotton away from him. Better give him guns for it, than let him, as now, get both guns and ammunition for it. But even this only presents part of the public interest to get out cotton. Our finances are greatly involved in the matter. The way cotton goes now carries so much gold out of the country as to leave us paper currency only, and that so far depreciated, as that for every hard dollar's worth of supplies we obtain, we contract to pay two and a half hard dollars hereafter. This is much to be regretted; and while I believe we can live through it at all events, it demands an earnest effort on the part of all to correct it. And if pecuniary greed can be made to aid us in such effort, let us be thankful that so much good can be got out of pecuniary greed.

Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln. Volume 8 [ Sept. 12, 1864-Apr. 14, 1865, undated, appendices]. | Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln | University of Michigan Library Digital Collections

 

[Stone in the wall]

No, @Stone in the wall , not when you have omitted all of the Confederacy's war-like acts before Lincoln's swearing in. I'm sure you seen the list of such acts, some done before some states even seceded and were still in the Union. It's been posted on this forum before in multiple threads.

So how is it "Lincoln's War" before the man was even President?

When did Congress declare War?

 

[unionblue]

When did Congress declare War?

This answer's the question of pre-Lincoln acts-of-war by the Confederacy HOW?

 

[Stone in the wall]

Afraid not because CSA was established on February 8th. So it is not Lincoln's war.

Also preceding Mr. Lincoln's inauguration were:
The election & inaugural of Jefferson Davis
"Cornerstone Speech"
Seizure of 15+ properties and ships

Who started the bloodshed with the invasion of Virginia?

 

[Fairfield]

I stated that if there was no war, then the US would remain segmented and the Confederates would gain their independance. Explain to me how that is blaming Lincoln?

You specifically stated: "It was Lincoln that needed a war."

 

[Stone in the wall]

So Yankees have absolutely no right to ensure that all Americans are not discriminated against?
Leftyhunter

Rhea was quoting actual Secessionists using the fear of racial miscegenation to recruit non slave owning whites to support Secession.
Leftyhunter

Didn't work in Virginia, succession didn't pass until Lincolns call for troops.

 

[Fairfield]

Who started the bloodshed with the invasion of Virginia?

There were a good many "invasions" before Virginia. Or, to cite General Lawrence, "If you didn't want us [the Union army] here, you shouldn't have asked us down".

 

[Stone in the wall]

So Yankees have absolutely no right to ensure that all Americans are not discriminated against?
Leftyhunter

Rhea was quoting actual Secessionists using the fear of racial miscegenation to recruit non slave owning whites to support Secession.
Leftyhunter

No because Lincoln didn't initiate hostilities he merely did his duty to suppress an unlawful rebellion.
Leftyhunter

It wasn't unlawful until after the war April 12th 1869.

 

[Stone in the wall]

There were a good many "invasions" before Virginia. Or, to cite General Lawrence, "If you didn't want us [the Union army] here, you shouldn't have asked us down".

How much blood was shed before this?

 

[Fairfield]

How much blood was shed before this?

At issue--I thought--was initial aggression. Perhaps the is something to calling the conflict the War of Southern Aggression.

 

[Stone in the wall]

At issue--I thought--was initial aggression. Perhaps the is something to calling the conflict the War of Southern Aggression.

Seems Southerners never got any thing with out fighting for it.

 

[Copperhead-mi]

In Dec 1864, Lincoln sent correspondence to General Canby who opposed cotton trade. The following is an excerpt.

"As to cotton. By the external blockade, the price is made certainly six times as great as it was. And yet the enemy gets through at least one sixth part as much in a given period, say a year, as if there were no blockade, and receives as much for it, as he would for a full crop in time of peace. The effect in substance is, that we give him six ordinary crops, without the trouble of producing any but the first; and at the same time leave his fields and his laborers free to produce provisions. You know how this keeps up his armies, and procures supplies from abroad. For other reasons we cannot give up the blockade, and hence it becomes immensely important to us to get the cotton away from him. Better give him guns for it, than let him, as now, get both guns and ammunition for it. But even this only presents part of the public interest to get out cotton. Our finances are greatly involved in the matter. The way cotton goes now carries so much gold out of the country as to leave us paper currency only, and that so far depreciated, as that for every hard dollar's worth of supplies we obtain, we contract to pay two and a half hard dollars hereafter. This is much to be regretted; and while I believe we can live through it at all events, it demands an earnest effort on the part of all to correct it. And if pecuniary greed can be made to aid us in such effort, let us be thankful that so much good can be got out of pecuniary greed.

Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln. Volume 8 [ Sept. 12, 1864-Apr. 14, 1865, undated, appendices]. | Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln | University of Michigan Library Digital Collections

Thank you for the source and link. I'm fairly familiar with this. I misunderstood what you wrote and took your comment to mean that Lincoln personally was involved in a between-the-lines cotton trade deal where he profited from the transaction.

 

[GwilymT]

Time Line:
March 4th Lincolns Inaguration
April 12th Sumpter
April 15th Lincolns call for troops to invade Virginia
April 17th Virginia's secession
April 18th Virginia takes Harpers Ferry
July 25th Congress Finally declares war
So it is Mr Lincolns War

limited and cherry picked timeline. Lol. Expected.

 

[leftyhunter]

Problem solved.

"A Yankee is a particular breed of person who believes that everyone should live as he does, and if not, he will force you to bend to his will."
Dr. Brion McClanahan

So Yankees have absolutely no right to ensure that all Americans are not discriminated against?
Leftyhunter

Gordon Rhea and I were speaking of non-slave owners, and why they fought. So are we now flipping and talking about words of the "actual sessionists"?

Rhea was quoting actual Secessionists using the fear of racial miscegenation to recruit non slave owning whites to support Secession.
Leftyhunter

Time Line:
March 4th Lincolns Inaguration
April 12th Sumpter
April 15th Lincolns call for troops to invade Virginia
April 17th Virginia's secession
April 18th Virginia takes Harpers Ferry
July 25th Congress Finally declares war
So it is Mr Lincolns War

No because Lincoln didn't initiate hostilities he merely did his duty to suppress an unlawful re

It wasn't unlawful until after the war April 12th 1869.

Per President Andrew Johnson the ACW ended in 1866.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

Problem solved.

"A Yankee is a particular breed of person who believes that everyone should live as he does, and if not, he will force you to bend to his will."
Dr. Brion McClanahan

So Yankees have absolutely no right to ensure that all Americans are not discriminated against?
Leftyhunter

Gordon Rhea and I were speaking of non-slave owners, and why they fought. So are we now flipping and talking about words of the "actual sessionists"?

Rhea was quoting actual Secessionists using the fear of racial miscegenation to recruit non slave owning whites to support Secession.
Leftyhunter

Time Line:
March 4th Lincolns Inaguration
April 12th Sumpter
April 15th Lincolns call for troops to invade Virginia
April 17th Virginia's secession
April 18th Virginia takes Harpers Ferry
July 25th Congress Finally declares war
So it is Mr Lincolns War

No because Lincoln didn't initiate hostilities he merely did his duty to suppress an unlawful re

It wasn't unlawful until after the war April 12th 1869.

Per President Andrew Johnson the ACW ended in 1866.
Leftyhunter

Didn't work in Virginia, succession didn't pass until Lincolns call for troops.

Not Lincoln's fault Lincoln had no choice but to invoke the Milita Act. If people in Virginia chose to rebel then that's there choice and should not complain if the suffer the consequences.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

Seems Southerners never got any thing with out fighting for it.

Your absolutely correct Southeners of African descent had to fight long and hard for their rights in the South.
Leftyhunter

 

[unionblue]

When did Congress declare War?

This answer's the question of pre-Lincoln acts-of-war by the Confederacy HOW?

 

[GwilymT]

Seems Southerners never got any thing with out fighting for it.

White Southerners ended up with another century of **** codified in law. Black southerners didn't get much, but confederate apologists never really take them into account, do they.

 

[Old_Glory]

You specifically stated: "It was Lincoln that needed a war."

How is that blaming him?

 

[Fairfield]

How is that blaming him?

Let me expand your post #466: "Their ultimate war aim was peace. It was Lincoln that needed a war." I read this as meaning that the peace-loving Confederates would have been happy to go merrily on their way but that it was Lincoln who needed to turn the idyll into war.