Restricted Taking down Confederate monuments not an easy task

W. Richardson

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Monuments can always be moved to a place dedicated for them.


I agree JGG and that is a compromise I think many could live with. I think the issue would be the cost to move it, and I am sure there would be some opposition from both sides, but nothing that could not be overcome.

1st National Confederate Flag   1.jpg

Respectfully,
William
 

18thVirginia

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I agree JGG and that is a compromise I think many could live with. I think the issue would be the cost to move it, and I am sure there would be some opposition from both sides, but nothing that could not be overcome.

View attachment 72279
Respectfully,
William

If there's a cost to moving anything, then the local government and state governments in Louisiana should take care of that, wouldn't you agree?
 

E_just_E

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I will repeat a point made in the video clip in the link: we need to have variety of "interpretations" of the war, to use the phrase empoyed by the historian from UNO in the clip. As I have mentioned elsewhere, New Orleans is very significant in terms of the history of black enlistment and emancipation during the war, yet, there are no monuments in the city which speak to that experience. Thus, the current monument landscape presents an unblanced and unfair view of the history.

How this can be fixed, I don't know. It would take years and thousands of dollars to create a balanced commemorative landscape. And that might not be possible for a city with the many challenges that New Orleans has. Given that, some might argue that to create a balanced landscape, it's far easier to remove than to create.

All of this makes for interesting discussion, but it's hard for me to believe that all of these monuments will be removed. We'll see.



Just to make my position clear: I am not pro-"destatuation." I am pro-historical balance. If the monument landscape does not present a fair balanced view of the history, then it needs to be fixed. We should have a discussion about (a) whether the monument lanscape does or does not provide a fair and balanced view of the history; (b) what should done if it is felt that current monument do not provide a fair and balanced view of the history.

- Alan

It's more than that. There is not a single monument or even a plaque regarding the Battle of New Orleans (ACW not 1812) or anything to even suggest that New Orleans was a Union City for the majority of the Civil War. Of course, the Union victory and capture of New Orleans was the reason that the city was so central in black enlistment and emancipation...
 

18thVirginia

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Some historical background about the Jefferson Davis Monument. The street on which it's located was originally named, "Hagan" (a land developer of the 1840s)-- it was renamed for Jefferson Davis.

Here's some information about the installation of the Jefferson Davis Monument on the renamed Jefferson Davis Avenue.

"General Bennett of Louisville was the principal speaker, reminding his hearers that “Mr. Davis suffered as no other Confederate”, and that the monument would “speak through the ages to the world of the Southland’s love and appreciation of the life and character of Jefferson Davis.”

The front side is ornamented with the seal of the Confederacy, surrounded by a laurel wreath, in bronze. At the upper end is a row of thirteen stars, representing the Confederate states. On the back of the pedestal is engraved: HIS NAME IS ENSHRINED IN THE HEARTS OF THE PEOPLE FOR WHOM HE SUFFERED, AND HIS DEEDS ARE FOREVER WEDDED TO IMMORTALITY.

http://louisdl.louislibraries.org/cdm/ref/collection/LWP/id/7701
 

Allie

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Who is "they" and do "they" speak for everyone?, speak for me? What if some admire him and some don't?

View attachment 72276
Respectfully,
William
I think it's important to remember that those alive in the present are now speaking for those in the past and those in the future, as well. Very few of us today feel a personal need to commemorate the same things prehistoric Native Americans wanted to commemorate, and in fact some cultures which created monuments have no living descendants. But most people today feel that it would be wrong to plow down a mound, as was often done in the past. We respect the memorials of a people who no longer exist because they make a lasting statement on behalf of those people, not because they make any sort of statement on our behalf.

Things which are destroyed today cannot be restored later. If our descendants look at old postcards and say, "It must have been cool to live back then, I wish there was something to look at in our town older than a strip mall," they don't have a time machine.
 

jgoodguy

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I think it's important to remember that those alive in the present are now speaking for those in the past and those in the future, as well. Very few of us today feel a personal need to commemorate the same things prehistoric Native Americans wanted to commemorate, and in fact some cultures which created monuments have no living descendants. But most people today feel that it would be wrong to plow down a mound, as was often done in the past. We respect the memorials of a people who no longer exist because they make a lasting statement on behalf of those people, not because they make any sort of statement on our behalf.

Things which are destroyed today cannot be restored later. If our descendants look at old postcards and say, "It must have been cool to live back then, I wish there was something to look at in our town older than a strip mall," they don't have a time machine.


Perhaps, but what if you cannot put their own monuments because another is in the way?
 

Allie

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Perhaps, but what if you cannot put their own monuments because another is in the way?
I don't think our world has gotten so small as all that. Not in America, anyway. In some parts of Europe as I understand it this is a real issue - "Oh great, they were redoing the basement and found Roman ruins, anybody want a house with a leaky basement cheap?"

I'm not advocating the tyranny of the past over the future, just that those considering try to take a long view.
 

NedBaldwin

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Who is "they" and do "they" speak for everyone?, speak for me? What if some admire him and some don't?
"They" are whoever is responsible for the monument/flag/statue in question; they 'speak' and decide in the way they normally would depending on what sort of group it is (council, legislature, foundation, whatever).
 

jgoodguy

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"They" are whoever is responsible for the monument/flag/statue in question; they 'speak' and decide in the way they normally would depending on what sort of group it is (council, legislature, foundation, whatever).

Take the worst case situation of a largely African American community required to expend funds to maintain monuments intended to glorify their former oppressors.
 

E_just_E

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Take the worst case situation of a largely African American community required to expend funds to maintain monuments intended to glorify their former oppressors.

I think that as long as communities define themselves with racial terms, these problems will continue. I think that it is about time that communities are defined by their community's name instead of by its racial composition. There is a New Orleans community, which is a very diverse and multi-racial community. In order to end racism, we have to be color blind. Any and every mention of race or differentiation of history/beliefs/abilities/privileges/etc based on race, feed racism. The community of New Orleans should be responsible for these monuments, regardless the color of people's skin or the language they speak at home. About time that American history becomes that. American History. Not White American or Black American or Gay American or whatever. Otherwise, monuments (and history) that do not represent someone's heritage, will be in danger.
 

jgoodguy

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I think that as long as communities define themselves with racial terms, these problems will continue. I think that it is about time that communities are defined by their community's name instead of by its racial composition. There is a New Orleans community, which is a very diverse and multi-racial community. In order to end racism, we have to be color blind. Any and every mention of race or differentiation of history/beliefs/abilities/privileges/etc based on race, feed racism. The community of New Orleans should be responsible for these monuments, regardless the color of people's skin or the language they speak at home. About time that American history becomes that. American History. Not White American or Black American or Gay American or whatever. Otherwise, monuments (and history) that do not represent someone's heritage, will be in danger.
Overly idealistic IMHO.
People are not that idealistic.
 

Poor Private

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If there's a cost to moving anything, then the local government and state governments in Louisiana should take care of that, wouldn't you agree?
Wooow back up the truck---IT IS NOT THE STATES OR LOCAL GOV'T FUNDS--it's the taxpayers money. Seems like everyone forgets that. And more than likely federal money will be involved which means it's my money also! And we wonder why taxes are so high. Let those who wish to move them pay for the moveing or demolition!
 

jgoodguy

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Wooow back up the truck---IT IS NOT THE STATES OR LOCAL GOV'T FUNDS--it's the taxpayers money. Seems like everyone forgets that. And more than likely federal money will be invoved which means it's my money also! And we wonder why taxes are so high. Let those who wish to move them pay for the moveing or demolition!

Mere speculation.
 
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