Restricted Taking down Confederate monuments not an easy task

CMWinkler

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Taking down Confederate monuments not an easy task
Posted: Jun 24, 2015 9:38 PM CST Updated: Jun 24, 2015 10:56 PM CST
Written by: Ryan Naquin, Reporter
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NEW ORLEANS (WVUE) -
New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu's effort to take down confederate monuments is meeting opposition.

"With the state capitols and the Confederate flags coming down, I think that's the right thing to do, but I'm not so sure about extending that to other symbols of the Civil War," monument supporter Marianne Knight said.

More: http://www.fox8live.com/story/29402910/taking-down-confederate-monuments-not-an-easy-task
 

marinegrunt

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My history may be rusty but I don't think Malcom X or Andrew Jackson had anything to do with the Civil War.
Actually, both do. Jackson is a cause of it as a slaveholder, and Malcolm X is a product of it. But I think what winkler and I meant was that it's a bit frivolous to try to sanitize history to the liking of individual groups.
 

Pat Young

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In this discussion, they need to also think about removing the statue of Andrew Jackson, a notorious slaveholder and racist. If we're going to take them, maybe they all ought to go.
Seriously, though, have you heard any calls to remove every statue to a racist? The current moves towards destatuation grow out of a specific incident. I wish we could discuss this issue fully and fairly, but I do not want to be disciplined or have the thread closed. This seems to in the same vein as the CBF threads which were moved to Campfire Chat. The discussion really makes little sense without reference to recent events,
 

jgoodguy

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The rule is
Discussions about the status, new laws, controversies etc of American Civil War monuments, battlefields, statues, parks etc are to be put in the Battlefield Preservation | American Civil War Forum

However the no modern politics rule applies, so leave ideology out. Keep it to a discussion of the facts.
 

cash

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In this discussion, they need to also think about removing the statue of Andrew Jackson, a notorious slaveholder and racist. If we're going to take them, maybe they all ought to go.

If memory serves, Andrew Jackson was not part of the confederacy, nor was he involved in a treasonous rebellion against the United States, so your false equivalency fallacy falls flat on its face.
 

CMWinkler

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So, is that what you are suggesting?

Me, no. I don't want any of them touched. If the current feeling is that statues don't tell the whole story, from my point of view then you memorialize the theme you want.

If, however, those behind this effort are to be logically consistent, then that would be the next logical target.
 

Pat Young

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Me, no. I don't want any of them touched. If the current feeling is that statues don't tell the whole story, from my point of view then you memorialize the theme you want.

If, however, those behind this effort are to be logically consistent, then that would be the next logical target.
I don't see them as being logically inconsistent in their proposal in New Orleans.
 

CMWinkler

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Seriously, though, have you heard any calls to remove every statue to a racist? The current moves towards destatuation grow out of a specific incident. I wish we could discuss this issue fully and fairly, but I do not want to be disciplined or have the thread closed. This seems to in the same vein as the CBF threads which were moved to Campfire Chat. The discussion really makes little sense without reference to recent events,

Actually, the destatuation movement started before Dylan Roof killed people in Charleston. His acts simply seemed to give momentum to the movement. I'm curious, Pat, do you support destatuation? I'm curious as to exactly what this movement seeks to accomplish. At least there is some nexus between the flag and the murders in Charleston, however tenuous, but I see no even tangential nexus between his murders and any statues.

I agree the rules here make some of these discussions difficult but I think this one can be accomplished within the rules. I'm game if you are.
 

jgoodguy

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Me, no. I don't want any of them touched. If the current feeling is that statues don't tell the whole story, from my point of view then you memorialize the theme you want.

If, however, those behind this effort are to be logically consistent, then that would be the next logical target.

Please let's not speculate on motives.
 

marinegrunt

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Actually, the destatuation movement started before Dylan Roof killed people in Charleston. His acts simply seemed to give momentum to the movement. I'm curious, Pat, do you support destatuation? I'm curious as to exactly what this movement seeks to accomplish. At least there is some nexus between the flag and the murders in Charleston, however tenuous, but I see no even tangential nexus between his murders and any statues.

I agree the rules here make some of these discussions difficult but I think this one can be accomplished within the rules. I'm game if you are.
What is the specific monument that is under fire in New Orleans?
 

jgoodguy

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Might be real nice to discuss impediments to monument removal and if there is sufficient money and political will to do so.

It seems there is someone always talking about it, but little other than sound bites.
 

marinegrunt

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Might be real nice to discuss impediments to monument removal and if there is sufficient money and political will to do so.

It seems there is someone always talking about it, but little other than sound bites.
Story says the city council has to do it. But I think things like this should be a referendum on a ballot so voters can have a direct input. If the legislature votes to take them down on government institutions like state houses, fine. Those that are in park or along a place like Monument Ave in Richmond should be the domain of the citizens.
 
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