Limited Protesters push to take down Confederate monuments from Gettysburg

Johnny_Reb_1865

Corporal
Joined
Nov 3, 2019
Your voice counts, even if it is only heard in our little corner of the world.

Perhaps 20 or 30 years from now a 10 year old child will be surfing the Internet and discover the statues that were once on Monument Avenue. He or she will ask the parents for more information. Maybe the parent will give the child Shelby Foote’s three volume narrative of the war.

That scenario could be the beginning of a story.
And I'll have educated one person.

In order to fix this mess and have people respect both sides again like it used to be something drastic has to happen.

And soon.
 

DanSBHawk

Captain
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
So for a hundred and fifty six years no body really complained about these statues being "offensive"...all of a sudden the whole country is freaking out...the first thing communists, socialists and tyrants do is erase history. Some folks gave a good portion of their lives to help preserve that history, good and bad. These monuments need to be seen by future generations as a reminder not to do it again. They were all Americans, but in the end, they'll be removed, because our country is no longer run by Americans.
The people who were opposed to the statues from the start, didn't dare complain.

"...first thing communists, socialists and tyrants do is erase history..." Give the partisan political stuff a break. Neither side has a great record.
 

Package4

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
The people who were opposed to the statues from the start, didn't dare complain.

"...first thing communists, socialists and tyrants do is erase history..." Give the partisan political stuff a break. Neither side has a great record.
Please provide a source for “The people who were opposed to the statues from the start, didn’t dare complain.” There are plenty of instances, just read the Batchelder Papers, the majority both North and South wanted it as a means to heal.

One could bring up many other historical examples of a vanquished people/army, continuing to be punished and the long term results Edited.
 
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unionblue

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Member of the Year
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
Ocala, FL (as of December, 2015).
So for a hundred and fifty six years no body really complained about these statues being "offensive"...all of a sudden the whole country is freaking out...the first thing communists, socialists and tyrants do is erase history. Some folks gave a good portion of their lives to help preserve that history, good and bad. These monuments need to be seen by future generations as a reminder not to do it again. They were all Americans, but in the end, they'll be removed, because our country is no longer run by Americans.
Not every American who protests these monuments are "communists, socialists, and tyrants."

In fact, some are non-communists, non-socialists, and hold no office of tyrant, dictator, or king.

Now to be sure, I see no sense in removing monuments from Gettysburg, Confederate or Union, but I completely support removing Confederate monuments from public spaces and from schools.

As for my own credentials, I was born in this country, served in the military defending it, and until recently, voted conservative 99% of the time.

Using a broad brush to describe folks on the other side of the fence may be comforting, but it's hardly accurate.

Just sayin'.

Unionblue
 

GwilymT

Sergeant Major
Joined
Aug 20, 2018
Location
Pittsburgh
So for a hundred and fifty six years no body really complained about these statues being "offensive"...all of a sudden the whole country is freaking out...the first thing communists, socialists and tyrants do is erase history. Some folks gave a good portion of their lives to help preserve that history, good and bad. These monuments need to be seen by future generations as a reminder not to do it again. They were all Americans, but in the end, they'll be removed, because our country is no longer run by Americans.
This isn’t true. Several Union veterans voiced objections to these confederate statues at Gettysburg.
 

Johnny_Reb_1865

Corporal
Joined
Nov 3, 2019
Not every American who protests these monuments are "communists, socialists, and tyrants."

In fact, some are non-communists, non-socialists, and hold no office of tyrant, dictator, or king.

Now to be sure, I see no sense in removing monuments from Gettysburg, Confederate or Union, but I completely support removing Confederate monuments from public spaces and from schools.

As for my own credentials, I was born in this country, served in the military defending it, and until recently, voted conservative 99% of the time.

Using a broad brush to describe folks on the other side of the fence may be comforting, but it's hardly accurate.

Just sayin'.

Unionblue
Isn't Gettysburg a public space?
 

infomanpa

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Feb 18, 2017
Location
Pennsylvania
Isn't Gettysburg a public space?
It's Federal land, yes. I really think as far as Gettysburg is concerned there is a lot of hype and alarmist reactions on this thread. There really isn't any concerted intent of serious discussion to remove monuments. Just because a small amount of people want something, it doesn't mean it's going to happen. I think that we can take a deep breath and chill.
 

Package4

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
It's Federal land, yes. I really think as far as Gettysburg is concerned there is a lot of hype and alarmist reactions on this thread. There really isn't any concerted intent of serious discussion to remove monuments. Just because a small amount of people want something, it doesn't mean it's going to happen. I think that we can take a deep breath and chill.
Erected in 1909 in the Vicksburg National Military Park, the Mississippi Memorial "represents various actions of the Mississippi troops during the Siege of Vicksburg." And, if a bill that recently passed the U.S. House of Representatives becomes law, the memorial — along with many others in the military park — could be targeted for removal.

The bill, known as "HB 7608" is titled the "Environment, Military Construction, and Veterans Affairs Appropriations Act, 2021" was sponsored by Rep. Nita M. Lovey (D-N.Y.) and contains a provision that could severely change the history documented at the Vicksburg National Military Park, as well as 21 other national parks commemorating Civil War battles.
 

DanSBHawk

Captain
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
Erected in 1909 in the Vicksburg National Military Park, the Mississippi Memorial "represents various actions of the Mississippi troops during the Siege of Vicksburg." And, if a bill that recently passed the U.S. House of Representatives becomes law, the memorial — along with many others in the military park — could be targeted for removal.

The bill, known as "HB 7608" is titled the "Environment, Military Construction, and Veterans Affairs Appropriations Act, 2021" was sponsored by Rep. Nita M. Lovey (D-N.Y.) and contains a provision that could severely change the history documented at the Vicksburg National Military Park, as well as 21 other national parks commemorating Civil War battles.
The bill was passed in Dec '20 without the wording about confederate monuments in national parks.
 

Quaama

Sergeant
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Location
Port Macquarie, Australia
The bill was passed in Dec '20 without the wording about confederate monuments in national parks.

The Congress.gov site shows HR7608 passed the House in July 2020 [link] with Section 442 intact. There is no indication that HR7608 has passed the Senate so it has not been sent to the President to be signed into law.
Section 442 states:
"Notwithstanding any other provision of law or policy to the contrary, within 180 days of enactment of this Act, the National Park Service shall remove from display all physical Confederate commemorative works, such as statues, monuments, sculptures, memorials, and plaques, as defined by NPS, Management Policies 2006, Sec. 9.6.1."
In other words, anything Confederate including simple plaques must be removed within 180 days of that bill becoming law. [Section 441 & 443 are also related to Confederate things and names.]
 

Johnny_Reb_1865

Corporal
Joined
Nov 3, 2019
It's Federal land, yes. I really think as far as Gettysburg is concerned there is a lot of hype and alarmist reactions on this thread. There really isn't any concerted intent of serious discussion to remove monuments. Just because a small amount of people want something, it doesn't mean it's going to happen. I think that we can take a deep breath and chill.

When they start removing the Confederate monuments at Gettysburg I'll revisit this comment.
 

infomanpa

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Feb 18, 2017
Location
Pennsylvania
Erected in 1909 in the Vicksburg National Military Park, the Mississippi Memorial "represents various actions of the Mississippi troops during the Siege of Vicksburg." And, if a bill that recently passed the U.S. House of Representatives becomes law, the memorial — along with many others in the military park — could be targeted for removal.

The bill, known as "HB 7608" is titled the "Environment, Military Construction, and Veterans Affairs Appropriations Act, 2021" was sponsored by Rep. Nita M. Lovey (D-N.Y.) and contains a provision that could severely change the history documented at the Vicksburg National Military Park, as well as 21 other national parks commemorating Civil War battles.

The bill was passed in Dec '20 without the wording about confederate monuments in national parks.
Fortunately, that bill appears to be dead.
https://www.billtrack50.com/BillDetail/1237840
 

DanSBHawk

Captain
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
The Congress.gov site shows HR7608 passed the House in July 2020 [link] with Section 442 intact. There is no indication that HR7608 has passed the Senate so it has not been sent to the President to be signed into law.
Section 442 states:
"Notwithstanding any other provision of law or policy to the contrary, within 180 days of enactment of this Act, the National Park Service shall remove from display all physical Confederate commemorative works, such as statues, monuments, sculptures, memorials, and plaques, as defined by NPS, Management Policies 2006, Sec. 9.6.1."
In other words, anything Confederate including simple plaques must be removed within 180 days of that bill becoming law. [Section 441 & 443 are also related to Confederate things and names.]
It was an appropriations bill that congress was working on last year. They passed an appropriations bill in Dec '20 without referencing confederate monuments.

https://www.rollcall.com/2020/12/23/confederate-monuments-at-national-parks-get-reprieve/
 

Package4

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
The bill was passed in Dec '20 without the wording about confederate monuments in national parks.
You could not be more wrong.

The bill contains a section requiring the National Park Service to "remove from display all physical Confederate commemorative works, such as statues, monuments, sculptures, memorials and plaques as defined by 'NPS, Management Policies'" within 180 days after the bill becomes law.

The bill prohibits the National Park Service from spending money to purchase or display a Confederate flag "with the exception of specific circumstances where the flags provide historical context."

It also requires the Secretary of the Interior to present an inventory of all items with Confederate names to the House Appropriations Committee within 90 days after the bill becomes law.

The Senate didn’t take up the bill and is in the process of writing their own. Since it will be included in an appropriations bill it may only need 51 votes, this is how close we are to losing history.
 

Quaama

Sergeant
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Location
Port Macquarie, Australia
Fortunately, that bill appears to be dead.
https://www.billtrack50.com/BillDetail/1237840

As this is an 'appropriations' bill doesn't it mean that if it doesn't pass there is no money for all those things addressed in the bill?

[Although very important to Civil War enthusiasts, Section 442 and related items are very minor in terms of the sort of monetary figures being discussed in other sections of the bill.]
 

Philip Leigh

formerly Harvey Johnson
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
You could not be more wrong.

The bill contains a section requiring the National Park Service to "remove from display all physical Confederate commemorative works, such as statues, monuments, sculptures, memorials and plaques as defined by 'NPS, Management Policies'" within 180 days after the bill becomes law.

The bill prohibits the National Park Service from spending money to purchase or display a Confederate flag "with the exception of specific circumstances where the flags provide historical context."

It also requires the Secretary of the Interior to present an inventory of all items with Confederate names to the House Appropriations Committee within 90 days after the bill becomes law.

The Senate didn’t take up the bill and is in the process of writing their own. Since it will be included in an appropriations bill it may only need 51 votes, this is how close we are to losing history.
Thanks for the clarification.
 
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