★ ★ Rosecrans, William S.

William Starke "Old Rosy" Rosecrans​

Born: September 6, 1819

Birthplace: Delaware County, Ohio

Father: Crandall Rosecrans 1794 – 1848

Mother: Jemima Hopkins 1794 – 1861

Wife: Ann Eliza Hegeman 1823 – 1883

(Buried: Mount Olivet Cemetery, Washington, D.C.)​

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Married: August 24, 1843 at St. Paul's Church in New York City, New York

Children:

Rev. Adrian Louis Rosecrans 1849 – 1876​

(Buried: Saint Paul the Apostle Church Vault, Manhattan, New York)​

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Sister Mary Louise "Sister St. Charles" Rosecrans 1852 – 1878​

(Buried: Ursuline Cemetery, Saint Martin, Ohio)​

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Lily Elizabeth Rosecrans Toole 1854 – 1939​

(Buried: Resurrection Cemetery, Helena, Montana)​

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Anna Delores "Anita" Rosecrans 1857 – 1903​

(Buried: Old Saint Mary's Catholic Cemetery, Helena, Montana)​

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Carl Frederic Rosecrans 1860 – 1926​

(Buried: Calvary Cemetery, Los Angeles, California)​

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Charlotte Rosecrans 1862 - 1862​

Education:

1842: Graduated from West Point Military Academy – (5th​ in class)​

Occupation before War:

1842 – 1843: Brevet 2nd​ Lt. United States Army, Corps of Engineers​

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1842 – 1843: Assistant Engineer for Hampton Roads Fortifications​

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1843 – 1853: 2nd​ Lt. United States Army, Corps of Engineers​

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1843 – 1844: Assistant Engineering Professor at West Point​

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1844 – 1845: Assistant Philosophy Professor at West Point​

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1845 – 1846: Assistant Engineering Professor at West Point​

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1846 – 1847: Principal Assistant Engineering Professor at West Point​

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1847 – 1853: Superintendent Engineer of Repairs at Fort Adams​

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1852 – 1853: Superintendent Engineer of Surveys of Taunton River​

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1852 – 1853: Superintendent Engineer Repairs on Goat Island​

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1853 – 1854: 1st​ Lt. United States Army, Corps of Engineers​

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1853 – 1854: Superintendent Engineer, Washington Navy Yard​

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1854: Resigned from United States Army on April 1st​​

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1854 – 1855: Civil Engineer, and Architect, in Cincinnati, Ohio​

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1855 – 1857: Superintendent of Coal Company, in Coal River, Virginia​

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1856 – 1857: President of Coal River Navigation Company​

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1857 – 1861: Manufacturer of Kerosene Oil in Cincinnati, Ohio​

Civil War Career:

1861: Volunteer Aide to McClellan for Department of the Ohio​

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1861: Colonel, and Chief Engineer in the Union Army​

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1861: Colonel of 23rd​ Ohio Infantry Regiment​

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1861: Commander of Camp Chase, Ohio​

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1861 – 1867: Brigadier General in United States Army​

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1861: Brigade Commander at Battle of Rich Mountain​

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1861: Commander of the Union Army, Department of the Ohio​

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1861 – 1862: Commander of the Army Department of Western Virginia​

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1861: Successful Commander at Battle of Carnifex Ferry​

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1862 – 1866: Major General of Union Army, Volunteers​

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1862: Division Commander at the Siege of Corinth, Mississippi​

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1862: Commander of the Union Army of the Mississippi​

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1862: Successful Commander at Battle of Iuka, Mississippi​

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1862: Union Army Commander of District of Corinth, Mississippi​

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1862: Successful Commander at 2nd​ Battle of Corinth, Mississippi​

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1862 – 1863: Union Army Commander of Army of the Cumberland​

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1862 – 1863: Successful Commander at Battle of Stones River, Tennessee​

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1863: Union Army Commander Occupation of Bridgeport – Stevenson​

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1863: Union Army Commander crossing of Cumberland Mountains​

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1863: Unsuccessful Commander at Battle of Chickamuga, Georgia​

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1863: Commenced fortifying Chattanooga, Tennessee​

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1863 – 1864: Awaiting Orders in Cincinnati, Ohio​

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1864: Union Army Commander of Department of the Missouri​

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1864 – 1865: Awaiting Orders in Cincinnati, Ohio​

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1865: Brevetted Major General, U.S. Army, for Service at Stones River​

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1865 – 1867: On Leave of Absence from the United States Army​

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1866: Mustered out of the Union Army on January 15th​​

Occupation after War:

1861 – 1867: Brigadier General in United States Army​

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1865 – 1867: On Leave of Absence from the United States Army​

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1867: Resigned from United States Army on March 28th​​

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1868 – 1869: U.S. Minister to the Republic of Mexico​

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1869: Declined Democratic Nomination for Governor of Ohio​

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1869 – 1881: Civil and Mining Engineer, Railroad Enterprises in Mexico​

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1871 – 1881: President of San Jose Mining Company​

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1878 – 1881: President of Safety Powder Company in San Francisco​

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1881 – 1885: United States Congressman from California​

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1883 – 1885: House Chairman of Military Affairs Committee​

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1885 – 1893: Register for U.S. Treasury Department​

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1889: Brigadier General, U.S. Army on the retired list of officers​

Died: March 10, 1898

Place of Death: Bernardo Beach, California

Cause of Death: Pneumonia

Age at time of Death: 78 years old

Original Burial Place: Rosedale Cemetery, Los Angeles, California

Final Burial Place: Arlington National Cemetery, Arlington, Virginia

 

[David Moore]

Key phrase is in the field I suppose. He apparently doesn't say Grant didn't drink while in uniform. However getting drunk at Chattanooga which is supported by the Rawlins letter in the Grant Papers is a pretty serious and negative thing I think. Iuka probably is the case where alcohol played a role during a battle. However I want to defer on discussing that.
Rosecrans was a reluctant politician. Not Garfield.
So you've read my Washburne chapter?
Im pretty proud of it. Especially the correspondence about Grant as a presidential candidate in 1864. Anything specific that was incorrect or false?
i will still post the Young-Garfield letters even if you don't really want to see them. Others might snd aside from my book I don't know that they've been published in their entirety.
You suggested that I should not mention my book so much lest think I'm trying to drum up sales.
Although I would like to sell more books I really want people to judge my opinions based on the work I've done over the decades.
(I may be confusing you with Mr Hawk on this last point. If so I apologize for attributing it to you. )

 

[NedBaldwin]

... Iuka probably is the case where alcohol played a role during a battle.

Though as you have pointed out, Grant was not at the battle.
The focus on Grant at Iuka is a distraction.

 

[David Moore]

Grant was most certainly part of the battle of Iuka. He just didn't take a positive role. His major action was to postpone his movement until he got word from Price about Grant's suggestion that he surrender after being informed that Lee had supposedly been destroyed at Antietam.
Grant wasn't at Corinth.
i really don't want to get into a discussion about Iuka because I've lots of really important information that I don't want to discuss until it and the supporting documentation are publicly available. Dismiss this if you wish but hopefully some time soon anyone interested can judge my research for themselves.

 

[trice]

Because if one accepts that Grant got drunk in New Orleans post Vicksburg and more importantly in Chattanooga once he is in command a defense could be Lincoln's unverified - and probably untrue - quote about giving Grant's whiskey to other generals etc.
Rawlins rather despairing letter is in the Grant Papers which are available on
line.

What this has to do with Rosecrans is that his temperament has been questioned but is that as bad as getting " drunk on the job?"
I also believe Grant was drunk at Iuka. He certainly was "distracted."
I'd prefer not to get into a discussion of Iuka because that is my current are of study and I'd rather wait for my documented conclusions to be publicly available before discussing them.

You are indulging here in what is sometimes called "what-aboutism" today. It consists of making some statement to cause the discussion to go off on a tangent while never answering questions about the topic at hand. Your answer to questions about your position is essentially to say "What about Grant?" This is just a red herring.

I haven't asked you any questions about Iuka. ***You*** are the one bringing Iuka up as if it demonstrates something about Rosecrans. If you prefer not to discuss it, fine: don't introduce it into the discussion at all then.

 

[David Moore]

No I just wanted to explain why I'm making statements that I'm not going to document - at this time.
My biggest complaint about this site - aside from the personal attacks that occasionally slip in- is the proliferation of statements made with weak to no documentation. Mere opinion.
If I make a statement about Iuka - such as about the "wind inversion" - but don't provide documentation to support it I am committing the same offense. I only wanted to acknowledge that and say I'm not prepared to show my sourcing yet.

 

[David Moore]

 

[David Moore]

Young was editor at the NY Tribune - Horace Greeley's paper.
He sent this unsolicited letter to Garfield upon Rosecrans' resignation from the army.
Sone things to note:
His desire to do "justice" for Rosecrans. The implication is that he hadn't been treated justly.
Also of course the four times removed each at the end of the victory comment.
No doubt this will be disputed by some on this site but what can't be disputed is that Young believed this and didn't think it was a controversial statement.
I'll post Garfield's response a bit later.

 

[tony_gunter]

I also believe Grant was drunk at Iuka. He certainly was "distracted."

LOL this is hilarious. Grant TOLD Rosecrans he was distracted, by intel he had received concerning the movements of the enemy. It was a warning to not be too aggressive.

Rosecrans was two days late on his own schedule. Grant told Ord to move up as close as he could without bringing on a general engagement, and wait to hear the sounds of battle from the south. Rosecrans showed up in front of Iuka with 1.5 hours of daylight left and pitched into battle in piecemeal fashion. Cannonading was sporadic because batteries were silenced and changed hands several times, so Ord never heard what sounded like a pitched battle.

 

[David Moore]

LOL this is hilarious. Grant TOLD Rosecrans he was distracted, by intel he had received concerning the movements of the enemy. It was a warning to not be too aggressive.

Rosecrans was two days late on his own schedule. Grant told Ord to move up as close as he could without bringing on a general engagement, and wait to hear the sounds of battle from the south. Rosecrans showed up in front of Iuka with 1.5 hours of daylight left and pitched into battle in piecemeal fashion. Cannonading was sporadic because batteries were silenced and changed hands several times, so Ord never heard what sounded like a pitched battle.

No sourcing. I'm not prepared to post my sourcing yet so no comments from me.

 

[trice]

No I just wanted to explain why I'm making statements that I'm not going to document - at this time.
My biggest complaint about this site - aside from the personal attacks that occasionally slip in- is the proliferation of statements made with weak to no documentation. Mere opinion.
If I make a statement about Iuka - such as about the "wind inversion" - but don't provide documentation to support it I am committing the same offense. I only wanted to acknowledge that and say I'm not prepared to show my sourcing yet.

Again, if you don't want to talk about Iuka, simply do not talk about Iuka.

 

[David Moore]

Again, if you don't want to talk about Iuka, simply do not talk about Iuka.

Again, if you don't want to talk about Iuka, simply do not talk about Iuka.

I think it came up when someone mentioned Grant's battles but omitted it and Corinth. Might also have been about the statement that Grant's drinking did not affect his battlefield performance.

 

[NedBaldwin]

I think it came up when someone mentioned Grant's battles but omitted it and Corinth. Might also have been about the statement that Grant's drinking did not affect his battlefield performance.

You used to admonish us to omit them as he wasn't there
Neither place did drinking affect his performance because he was not present at either battlefield.
This is simply smoke and mirrors to distract from the subject of Rosecrans

 

[David Moore]

I may have said not to count them as Grant victories. Grant was at Iuka and was aware a battle was going on.
The thing about this post is that it starterd with a simple birthday post. Then Mr Hawk posted about Rosecrans' opposition to the Grant pension bill. ( Dana was also against it. )
Quickly this devolved to the same 2-3 people posting their opinions and citing materials that can be found easily in Google books.
Now we see why Albert Castel said an honest biographer of Rosecrans would need to be brave.
This site is small potatoes but imagine an academic who would dare to challenge the accepted story of Grant. He'd be labeled a neo- Confederate, apologist for The Lost Cause or worse.

 

[NedBaldwin]

I may have said not to count them as Grant victories. Grant was at Iuka and was aware a battle was going on.
The thing about this post is that it starterd with a simple birthday post. Then Mr Hawk posted about Rosecrans' opposition to the Grant pension bill. ( Dana was also against it. )
Quickly this devolved to the same 2-3 people posting their opinions and citing materials that can be found easily in Google books.
Now we see why Albert Castel said an honest biographer of Rosecrans would need to be brave.
This site is small potatoes but imagine an academic who would dare to challenge the accepted story of Grant. He'd be labeled a neo- Confederate, apologist for The Lost Cause or worse.

People challenge the accept story of Grant all the time and dont get called those things.
So spare us the whining, I think you're better than that.

 

[David Moore]

Mr Baldwin it was Albert Castel who used the word brave. I'm just surmising why.
Enough on here today for my part.
I'll try and get the Rosecrans VP letters up. Please read them- with an open mind.

 

[DanSBHawk]

Mr Baldwin it was Albert Castel who used the word brave. I'm just surmising why.
Enough on here today for my part.
I'll try and get the Rosecrans VP letters up. Please read them- with an open mind.

Perhaps Castel thought it would take courage to tell the truth about Rosecrans because the truth would upset Army of the Cumberland fans.

 

[uaskme]

Apparently more than yourself. Grant wasn't forced into the river. He was pushed and then he stopped and held. And he didn't flee the battle like Rosecrans.

Rosecrans did not flee. He went to Chattanooga to prepare for whatever events were necessary. Best place to do that was Chattanooga. Bad optics but was militarily correct. Per Ogden and Powell. He immediately gave orders to Garfield on the ride to Roseville Gap. Roseville Gap was the first place Troops could be organized. Thomas gave a positive order to Sheridan and others to return to the battlefield. Belatedly he did and on the East side of Missionary Ridge rather than the West so ordered.


Thousands of Grant's troops at Shiloh did the Dog Paddle. Grant nor Sherman had any idea they would be attacked.

 

[uaskme]

I'd like to see Jim Ogden's reason for saying that. Can you send me where you read this?

I would like to see the subject of that quote. I have heard Ogden say that Grant had 2 Staff Officers assigned to Grant whose purpose was to sustain Grant from drinking. Not a subject that I have heard him discuss in detail.

 

[DanSBHawk]

Rosecrans did not flee. He went to Chattanooga to prepare for whatever events were necessary. Best place to do that was Chattanooga. Bad optics but was militarily correct.

Rosecrans fled. Completely, personally, defeated.

Alfred Lacey Hough was sent from the battlefield into Chattanooga to find Rosecrans and receive orders. Hough found Rosecrans and later wrote, somewhat delicately, that Rosecrans showed "the want of the one requisite of a great military commander, firmness and self-reliance under adverse circumstances." Hough told his son a more detailed account:

 

[uaskme]

Rosecrans fled. Completely, personally, defeated.

Alfred Lacey Hough was sent from the battlefield into Chattanooga to find Rosecrans and receive orders. Hough found Rosecrans and later wrote, somewhat delicately, that Rosecrans showed "the want of the one requisite of a great military commander, firmness and self-reliance under adverse circumstances." Hough told his son a more detailed account:

View attachment 414020

You have one source in comparison to many others who say otherwise. A second hand source at that. Negley left Horseshoe Ridge and took 20 pieces of Artillery, 14th Corps supply train and most of his Division. This is before the Confederate assault. Negley was sick that day but he got cashiered for his absence. No one knew he was leaving. Thomas would of probably shot him.

Their is no substitute for at least trying to study these battles.