Lee Robert E. Lee - A Hero Every Child Should Know.

[Desert Kid]

This is why I like Cleburne.

He's such a safe option!

 

[leftyhunter]

Every "hero" is a hero to some and a villain to others. IMO you teach the facts about Robert E. Lee and leave the "hero" out of it. But of course, people of one persuasion will teach certain facts about Lee while people of another persuasion will teach others (been that way North v. South for 150 years), so we're back in the same mire, I suppose.

I don't put much stock in "heroes"; I think it's an overused term. To my mind there are people who are generally wise and people who are generally foolish. Maybe if you knowingly give up your life for a fellow human being I might call you a hero, but for me it would take something along those lines. I wouldn't call Lee a hero, but then I wouldn't even call Lincoln a hero (and I admire him more than almost any other American ever).

Well written point of view. I have to politely disagree. Some people will put their lives at risk when they don't have to over and over again. I am thinking of John Elis who at great risk traveled back and forth from Ky to Tn to guide young Unionists away from CSA conscription. Many of the young men joined the Union Army. Martin Luther King had more guts that perhaps anyone in history. MLK was a son of Dixie by the way born and bred there. There are of course many others such has Audie Murphy although yes he had demons , who can blame him? Lincoln perhaps is a hero he really worked hard to preserve the Union plus of course his son died in the middle of his term not an easy task to keep it together.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

All children should know who Benedict Arnold was. I also think they should also learn about other states, so there's a multitude of flags for you.

As far as heroes go...I try to avoid that term in my classes. If we're talking Greek here then most die a tragic death.

I suppose one man's hero is another man's villain. On the other hand if one but his life on the line for a good cause over and over again we have to give that man or women their due. Someone who fights to preserve slavery can or can not be a hero to some depending on their viewpoint. On the other hand if one is of African descent it's hard to make the argument that Robert E Lee is a hero.
Leftyhunter

 

[7th Texas Mounted Rifles]

This is why I like Cleburne.

He's such a safe option!

Cleburne was the man, no doubt!

But even he is not safe of scrutiny and/or slander - even if it is in a subject area that bore no effect upon his leadership/service.

(You know exactly what accusations i speak of...)

 

[huskerblitz]

I suppose one man's hero is another man's villain. On the other hand if one but his life on the line for a good cause over and over again we have to give that man or women their due. Someone who fights to preserve slavery can or can not be a hero to some depending on their viewpoint. On the other hand if one is of African descent it's hard to make the argument that Robert E Lee is a hero.
Leftyhunter

Why does one man's hero necessarily have to be a villian? Why can't they just be the people they were? Trying to make one out to be a hero or villian seems to overcomplicate the issue.

 

[Greyfalcon]

This is why I like Cleburne.

Like Lee (imho), Cleburne was an exceptional human being.

 

[Desert Kid]

Cleburne was the man, no doubt!

But even he is not safe of scrutiny and/or slander - even if it is in a subject area that bore no effect upon his leadership/service.

(You know exactly what accusations i speak of...)

Like Lee (imho), Cleburne was an exceptional human being.

Oh, I understand completely.

The only failing of Cleburne's character I've found (even grown to accept and find a tad funny about him) is that in Helena, Arkansas' wild and wooly frontier days Cleburne was part of the town's Temperance league, but there is evidence of a reciept from a grocery store there of Cleburne buying a bottle of brandy! Dude had his vices, but they were just as bad as mine.

 

[Greyfalcon]

Cleburne was part of the town's Temperance league

Visions of his Irish ancestors rolling in their graves...

 

[7th Texas Mounted Rifles]

The only failing of Cleburne's character I've found (even grown to accept and find a tad funny about him) is that in Helena, Arkansas' wild and wooly frontier days Cleburne was part of the town's Temperance league, but there is evidence of a reciept from a grocery store there of Cleburne buying a bottle of brandy! Dude had his vices, but they were just as bad as mine.

I give the man the benefit of the doubt, and assume it was for medicinal purposes.

You know, self-medicating - like Sibley.

 

[Desert Kid]

I give the man the benefit of the doubt, and assume it was for medicinal purposes.

You know, self-medicating - like Sibley.

What was Sibley's general excuse for the alcohol anyway?

Headaches?

 

[Greyfalcon]

You know, self-medicating - like Sibley.

Hey, now!

 

[7th Texas Mounted Rifles]

What was Sibley's general excuse for the alcohol anyway?

Headaches?

Pretty much!

Sibley suffered from a debilitating illness known as 'campaign concussion' and he found that these hangovers could be avoided by the near-nonstop consumption of alcohol.



Honestly though, kidney/bladder stones - probably brought on because of the drinking amd associated dehydration.

A man who occasionally imbibes doesn't just magically earn the 'walking whiskey keg' moniker, ya know?

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

Visions of his Irish ancestors rolling in their graves...

 

[Desert Kid]

Visions of his Irish ancestors rolling in their graves...

It was clearly his mother's English ancestry forcing their will upon him.

 

[7th Texas Mounted Rifles]

Hey, now!

All in good fun!

If you verify via my posting history, you will see that Sibley's Brigade is pretty much the only reason I am here on CWT... I love that drunken old malingerer.

Now, Gideon Pillow (in general) and John Chivington (post-New Mexico Campaign) are an entirely different story...

 

[Desert Kid]

All in good fun!

If you verify via my posting history, you will see that Sibley's Brigade is pretty much the only reason I am here on CWT... I love that drunken old malingerer.

Now, Gideon Pillow (in general) and John Chivington (post-New Mexico Campaign) are an entirely different story...

You can take a good guess how I feel about Jubal Early, and some of Jefferson Davis' own (if not partially justified) actions, I've read enough about Davis to where I felt more sympathetic to Alex Stephens' side of their old bitter arguments.

 

[MattL]

Same question I asked Huskerblitz ( no answer so far) how does one teach an Afro American or Bi Racial child that Robert E Lee is a hero ?
Leftyhunter

I don't want to go off topic, since this was about a book and not about the hero status of Robert E Lee (or anyone else). I find the question an interesting one and in another discussion thread I would be happy to give you an answer.

 

[Greyfalcon]

All in good fun!

If you verify via my posting history, you will see that Sibley's Brigade is pretty much the only reason I am here on CWT... I love that drunken old malingerer.

No offence taken. I chose him as my avatar, less because of affection for him, than due to my being a native son of southern New Mexico, err, I mean, the Confederate Territory of Arizona .

 

[Desert Kid]

No offence taken. I chose him as my avatar, less because of affection for him, than due to my being a native son of southern New Mexico, err, I mean, the Confederate Territory of Arizona .

Where at in Southern NM? I'm right next door in Southeast Arizona.

 

[Greyfalcon]

Where at in Southern NM? I'm right next door in Southeast Arizona.

I was born in Lea County, (named for Confederate Cpt. Joseph C. Lea, btw.), right on the NM/Texas line. I don't live there now, however. I still have family there though.