Native ( Indian) portrayals?

[johan_steele]

I have seen the term pretendian.

Appropriate as well.

 

[archieclement]

Nah, I'm just tired of White people wanting to be something they aren't. Some people are fine with people pretending to be something they're not. Simply stolen valor with a different target. That you might encourage such is expected.

The term Natives use is Iwishiwas and Wannabe… oddly they seem less appreciative of such than you do. Likely because they are the ones feeling insulted.

Yes I have encountered some in my life who seem offended by anything less then some noble savage nonsense as well, it's another lost cause narrative kept alive.........actually quite a double narrative as majority also chose the Confederacy.......alas two lost causes........

But certainly major tribes such as Cherokee had intermingled with whites for quite some time by ACW. As well had included whites within their communities by marriage.

 

[Borderruffian]

The term is Wannabe or Iwishiwas.

Actually the Term " Mixed Blood" as used at the time meant exactly that mixed blood or Cherokee and White, Choctaw and white, Creek and White ECT. In the Cherokee Nation a good percentage of the large land/slave owners were "mixed blood" not so the "traditionals" or Full Blood Cherokee also the traditional Cherokee were more likely to be " Pin" or Union sympathizing. Another less favored term for Mixed Bloods would be " Breed" or Him"Half Breed".

 

[johan_steele]

Actually the Term " Mixed Blood" as used at the time meant exactly that mixed blood or Cherokee and White, Choctaw and white, Creek and White ECT. In the Cherokee Nation a good percentage of the large land/slave owners were "mixed blood" not so the "traditionals" or Full Blood Cherokee also the traditional Cherokee were more likely to be " Pin" or Union sympathizing. Another less favored term for Mixed Bloods would be " Breed" or Him"Half Breed".

Or White Indian in other regions.

 

[archieclement]

Actually the Term " Mixed Blood" as used at the time meant exactly that mixed blood or Cherokee and White, Choctaw and white, Creek and White ECT. In the Cherokee Nation a good percentage of the large land/slave owners were "mixed blood" not so the "traditionals" or Full Blood Cherokee also the traditional Cherokee were more likely to be " Pin" or Union sympathizing. Another less favored term for Mixed Bloods would be " Breed" or Him"Half Breed".

As well in some cases native/black as well.....as well whites who took native wives could certainly be part of native society. As Sam Houston is rather famous example who went back and forth between societies he lived in during his life. As well certainly not that unusual with French traders.

It's surprising such racist attitudes exist today, could you imagine if someone referred to someone of mixed African American ancestry as somehow Wannabe or Iwishiwas whites or blacks It would be no better, and is actually what is the truly offensive attitude.

 

[Borderruffian]

As well in some cases native/black as well.....as well whites who took native wives could certainly be part of native society. As Sam Houston is rather famous example who went back and forth between societies he lived in during his life. As well certainly not that unusual with French traders.

It's surprising such racist attitudes exist today, could you imagine if someone referred to someone of mixed African American ancestry as somehow Wannabe or Iwisiwas whites or blacks It would be no better, and is actually what is the truly offensive attitude.

The Seminole Nation had a fair number of Mixed Blood black and Seminole tribal members put of the 5 Civilized Tribes, the Seminole would actively "adopt" run away slaves into the tribe and didn't hold slaves .

 

[Borderruffian]

Or White Indian in other regions.

I've heard members of the North Carolina Cherokee Nation sometimes refered to as "White Indiana" by members of the Oklahoma Cherokee Nation. The North Carolina Cherokee no longer were stay behinds during the Trail of Tears and since that time the blood has become so mixed that very few are able to meet the DIA's blood quorum which is required by most Tribes for membership so the Oklahoma Cherokee Nation didn't consider them actual Cherokee.
The Federal Government required the 5 Civilized Tribes to make their freed slaves tribal members in 1865-1966 regardless of blood quarom, the Oklahoma Cherokee Nation removed these Blacks of slave ancestors from the Tribal rolls some in the early to mid 2000's I believe other's of the 5 Civilized Tribes did like wide.
As far as being adopted into a tribe, of you are adopted you are/were a member of that tribe, race really has nothing to do with whether you are Cherokee, Choctaw, Creek ,Lakota or Mohawk. If they accepted you you were one of the " people" to No days they can just make you an Honorary Member of the Tribe to keep BIA from losing their minds.

 

[Dullknife]

Nah, I'm just tired of White people wanting to be something they aren't. Some people are fine with people pretending to be something they're not. Simply stolen valor with a different target. That you might encourage such is expected.

The term Natives use is Iwishiwas and Wannabe… oddly they seem less appreciative of such than you do. Likely because they are the ones feeling insulted.

Are you a real soldier?

Also,

You shouldn't make assumptions about people you dont even know. Doing that makes you seem like an ***.

 

[52ndFandS]

The tribe portrayed in the post-war docudrama "F TROOP" was originally named the Fugawi.
View attachment 515372

!!!

 

[johan_steele]

Are you a real soldier?

Also,

You shouldn't make assumptions about people you dont even know. Doing that makes you seem like an ***.

Yes, I have served, though years ago. I did 7 years USAF. Been an active member of the American Legion for more than 20 years. Is that enough for me or would you like me find and share my DD214? If so, no. I don't share private information on the net. But if you absolutely must see evidence I'll post a picture of my American Legion membership card.

I assume nothing about what I replied to. I stand behind it.

I grew tired of white men pretending to be something they're not long ago. White men pretending to be native are no different then white men pretending to be black or civilians pretending to be soldiers.

I've seen good Native American impressions and bad. Just as I've seen excellent impressions of US and CS as well as bad. You've gotten some good advice from experienced living historians on this thread. You can choose to listen or ignore it. That's up to you. You posted a thread with a question. Several people posted advice you apparently don't like, yet you asked for that advice.

There is a reason I will never wear a rank higher than I earned. I don't play war because there is a fine line between drama and farce that is too easily crossed. Having lost friends & acquaintances to actual combat it is a line I will not cross. There is a reason I don't play war.

I cannot tell anyone not to do something offensive, but I can explain why it might be considered offensive to some. Maybe, it will get through, maybe it won't.

As to being seen as an ***, I guarantee you that others of the same stripe I replied to have called me far worse.

If considering black face, stolen valor and Wannabes as out of line makes me an ***. So be it.

 

[7thWisconsin]

It´s very, very easy to do a bad Native impression - and for a long time most people were ok with the bad impressions. Rightfully so, we´re more sensitive to the issues surrounding that impression now. A friend of mine, who is white, portrayed a Native back during the US bicentennial. Leggings, body paint, skin wig: it was fine at the time and got him in the newspapers a lot. Looking back on it, though, his impression would be terrible ¨redface¨ today. Times change. I´m a French and Indian War reenactor. Native impressions are vital to our telling the story. The people who do that impression are a remarkably self disciplined and self-policing group because they realize how touchy their subject matter is. If you´re going to do a Native impression, you need to be prepared to roll up your sleeves and do an awe-inspiring amount of research not only about dress but about culture, language and history before your foot ever touches the reenactment field. Some versions of the hobby don´t require a lot of knowledge at the beginner level. Native is the opposite: the ramp up is pretty dramatic.

 

[Borderruffian]

My only advice would be check with the Cherokee Nation in Talaque Oklahoma, the Choctaw Nation in Oklahoma and the Creek Nation also in Oklahoma and see if there are Reenactment groups. I know they had a some guys in the Cherokee Nation that dressed as members of Waite and Mayes Cherokee Mounted Rifles for various events not all that historically accurate, but hey.

 

[Kurtlg]

Nah, I'm just tired of White people wanting to be something they aren't. Some people are fine with people pretending to be something they're not. Simply stolen valor with a different target. That you might encourage such is expected.

The term Natives use is Iwishiwas and Wannabe… oddly they seem less appreciative of such than you do. Likely because they are the ones feeling insulted.

Some have been found out much to their detriment.

 

[archieclement]

I have seen the term pretendian.

All reenacting is pretendian........

They really aren't Union/Confederate soldiers at all.......just pretending to be to present an impression.

 

[Dullknife]

Yes, I have served, though years ago. I did 7 years USAF. Been an active member of the American Legion for more than 20 years. Is that enough for me or would you like me find and share my DD214? If so, no. I don't share private information on the net. But if you absolutely must see evidence I'll post a picture of my American Legion membership card.

I assume nothing about what I replied to. I stand behind it.

I grew tired of white men pretending to be something they're not long ago. White men pretending to be native are no different then white men pretending to be black or civilians pretending to be soldiers.

I've seen good Native American impressions and bad. Just as I've seen excellent impressions of US and CS as well as bad. You've gotten some good advice from experienced living historians on this thread. You can choose to listen or ignore it. That's up to you. You posted a thread with a question. Several people posted advice you apparently don't like, yet you asked for that advice.

There is a reason I will never wear a rank higher than I earned. I don't play war because there is a fine line between drama and farce that is too easily crossed. Having lost friends & acquaintances to actual combat it is a line I will not cross. There is a reason I don't play war.

I cannot tell anyone not to do something offensive, but I can explain why it might be considered offensive to some. Maybe, it will get through, maybe it won't.

As to being seen as an ***, I guarantee you that others of the same stripe I replied to have called me far worse.

If considering black face, stolen valor and Wannabes as out of line makes me an ***. So be it.

Ah the voice of ignorance holds strong.

What responses didnt I like exactly? I thought I was being part of a discussion where at some points I was presenting some information I had found. Perhaps my responses weren't to your liking or upset some stupid world view you have?

Keep on keeping on then.

 

[TallTallMan]

I think they're finally getting actual Seminoles to portray the Seminoles too. Which is good - not only for better authenticity, but also because white guys portraying Native Americans doesn't fly very well anymore, no matter how sincere and sympathetic the portrayal.

YOU'D know that, fellow Floridian!

 

[TallTallMan]

@Dullknife You now see what happens when anybody starts a thread on NAs...

 

[Dullknife]

Its interesting how people think that Indian folks all over the continent have the same thoughts on everything. Opinions are going to vary. Pretty basic concept I didnt think was too hard to grasp.

I know its cool to identify with what are preceived as victimized groups. People want to virtue signal and show how enlightened they are.

Thank to the gentlemen who tried to help me out. I appreciate it.

 

[major bill]

Much might depend on where you plan to do a Native American impression. If the battle reenactment event was doing the Battle of Cold Harbor, showing up in full plains Native American dress at the battle might be looked down on by other reenactors. Same for a Second Battle of Bull Run reenactment..

 

[Dullknife]

@Dullknife You now see what happens when anybody starts a thread on NAs...

Yeah....its kinda silly in some ways....