Native ( Indian) portrayals?

[major bill]

Sadly, what is once seen can't be unseen!

At least he was a French fur trader not a shirt less First People reenactor.

 

[Dullknife]

Part of the reason I believe that First People might be offended is from my working at the Michigan History Museum. The First People groups has asked us not to allow docents who are non First People to dress up as First People, or wear items associated with the First People. We have docents that wear various Museum approved costumes. The French fur trade costumes are on hold because the possibility that the First People items added to the French fur trader costumes were questionable.

The Museum has been trying to update our pre European gallery for almost three years with the sticking point being 12 First People groups must approve every item and the associated signage. As stated by others, there is not one view amoung First Americans and a unanimous agreement from 12 groups is a challenge. Some artifacts have a religous connection to some of the 12 First People groups, so they are concerned about the artifacts being displayed at all, while other groups believe the artifacts can be put on display as long as the artifacts are displayed with proper respect.

Are French personas not going to be allowed moccasins breechclouts or leggings? That would be very stupid and not historically accurate

 

[Dullknife]

I would imagine Native Americans have better things to do than to take part in re-enactment of a War they were barely involved with.

Most native re-enactors are involved in cultural heritage and preserving their own histories in the East the would be more towards the wars they fought heavily in like King Philips , WoI , 1812 etc and in the west the Great Plains wars both North and South.

The Native Americans had little to no impact in the civil war but if some like the Cherokee and Choctaw want to form their own re-enactment society's more power to them at least it would be authentic unlike black confederates.

But seriously nobody should impersonate anybody of a different race its stupid and insulting also embarrassing.

Thats why America is great. We can all have our own opinions.

 

[major bill]

Are French personas not going to be allowed moccasins breechclouts or leggings? That would be very stupid and not historically accurate

The Museum is not currently doing French personas with the exception of a French priest. The docent guild costume committee and the Museum curator can change this at any time. I do believe the official docent costume book still has French personas presentations on file. The Museum does not own these approved French fur trader costumes and the French personas impressions were done with privately owned costumes and the persons owning them are not currently doing impressions. It might take about a year or so for the costume committee to approve and purchase approved French fur trader costumes. Much would depend on if the State provided costume money has been spent for the year or not. As far as I know we do not have any docents interested in doing a French fur trader impression.

 

[Dullknife]

I think some people are given a lot of power these days to dictate what is "correct" ....

Habitants, milice, people in the fur trade wore/ could have worn elements of indigenous clothing. Documented fact

Its good to have balance in what is shown. You probably dont want a whole native encampment of people who dont have " the look" but these "organizers" must realize that there were people of European genetics and (mix bloods )living as part of the various native groups. Full members of the societites. To not have that shown is a misrepresention of the past.

I know its cool to hate everything colonial or " white"....now. But you have to accept history for what it is not what you want it to be for personal or financial reasons. People gotta grow up.

 

[Dullknife]

At least in my area, some Native Americans would find it disrespectful for people with no Native American blood lines to portray Native Americans

 

[Dullknife]

Ojibwe Warriors Join the Battle of Spotsylvania | Wisconsin Historical Society

On May 9, 1864, Ojibwe Indians from the 7th Wisconsin Infantry help drive back enemy skirmishers with American Indian war tactics in Spotsylvania, Virginia

www.wisconsinhistory.org

 

[Dullknife]

Indians at Brompton | Mysteries & Conundrums https://npsfrsp.wordpress.com/2012/06/14/indians-at-brompton/

 

[Scott1967]

I think some people are given a lot of power these days to dictate what is "correct" ....

Habitants, milice, people in the fur trade wore/ could have worn elements of indigenous clothing. Documented fact

Its good to have balance in what is shown. You probably dont want a whole native encampment of people who dont have " the look" but these "organizers" must realize that there were people of European genetics and (mix bloods )living as part of the various native groups. Full members of the societites. To not have that shown is a misrepresention of the past.

I know its cool to hate everything colonial or " white"....now. But you have to accept history for what it is not what you want it to be for personal or financial reasons. People gotta grow up.

Nobody is disputing what your saying , I think you will find that cultural appropriation is hot on any activists not to do list no matter how decent your intentions are.

If you were to form a Native American contingent of re-enactors made up of white people I could see it offending every Native American activist and woke white liberal out there that would be a fact.

In Film and Television nowadays the scandals caused by not casting an actor of the appropriate race or colour can make front page news as we have seen recently with the Cleopatra film that's how touchy people are about misrepresenting true history.

I fully agree with you that mixed race would be authentic it was very common amongst the Eastern tribes and 5 civilised tribes but not as common amongst the Western tribes.

I wish you the best of luck having a unit of mixed blood Cherokees would not be to far off the truth whether the activists in the tribe and white liberals allow you too fulfil your goals without tarring your name in a local newspaper is another thing.

Either way if you don't care what people think go for it and the devil be dammed.

 

[archieclement]

Nobody is disputing what your saying , I think you will find that cultural appropriation is hot on any activists not to do list no matter how decent your intentions are.

If you were to form a Native American contingent of re-enactors made up of white people I could see it offending every Native American activist and woke white liberal out there that would be a fact.

In Film and Television nowadays the scandals caused by not casting an actor of the appropriate race or colour can make front page news as we have seen recently with the Cleopatra film that's how touchy people are about misrepresenting true history.

I fully agree with you that mixed race would be authentic it was very common amongst the Eastern tribes and 5 civilised tribes but not as common amongst the Western tribes.

I wish you the best of luck having a unit of mixed blood Cherokees would not be to far off the truth whether the activists in the tribe and white liberals allow you too fulfil your goals without tarring your name in a local newspaper is another thing.

Either way if you don't care what people think go for it and the devil be dammed.

The thing that gets overlooked is native activists are not the majority.

What is baffling, is how anyone can think we could ever have tolerance, if the majority view isn't to be tolerated. As well its rather relevant whites were not prohibited from the units historically, so weird they would be today. Sometimes it seems to me those claiming they wish to move away race discrimination for inclusion and tolerance, are the ones clinging to it the most.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

Getting back to the original poster's intent. How do you think you would portray a Native American, @Dullknife? Looking at your links, it was very much as I expected, nobody was wearing regalia. The one Pequot was in the USCT - they have an unhappy history because they, as a native group, had much darker skin (roughly half) so half of them were sold as slaves down to the Caribbean even before the War.

What I picked up up from the links were the Ojibwa were incredibly brave, excellent sharpshooters, and took far more advantage of using pine branches and other natural coverage to use for concealment than regular infantry did, so they were ahead of the army's time on that. And that would fit most any Indian warrior - they just don't back down and almost all Indian games, even today, are aimed at building hand to eye coordination.

So how do you see yourself portraying this? The only "Indian" thing was that the Ojibwa had a Bible in Ojibwa that was captured.

 

[Kurtlg]

Getting back to the original poster's intent. How do you think you would portray a Native American, @Dullknife? Looking at your links, it was very much as I expected, nobody was wearing regalia. The one Pequot was in the USCT - they have an unhappy history because they, as a native group, had much darker skin (roughly half) so half of them were sold as slaves down to the Caribbean even before the War.

What I picked up up from the links were the Ojibwa were incredibly brave, excellent sharpshooters, and took far more advantage of using pine branches and other natural coverage to use for concealment than regular infantry did, so they were ahead of the army's time on that. And that would fit most any Indian warrior - they just don't back down and almost all Indian games, even today, are aimed at building hand to eye coordination.

So how do you see yourself portraying this? The only "Indian" thing was that the Ojibwa had a Bible in Ojibwa that was captured.

I read an account many years ago that the Confederates noted that many of the muskets taken from captured members of Co. K , 1st Michigan Sharpshooters had animals carved into their stocks. These may have been Ojibwe clan symbols. Unfortunately I can't currently find the source..

 

[Kurtlg]

Getting back to the original poster's intent. How do you think you would portray a Native American, @Dullknife? Looking at your links, it was very much as I expected, nobody was wearing regalia. The one Pequot was in the USCT - they have an unhappy history because they, as a native group, had much darker skin (roughly half) so half of them were sold as slaves down to the Caribbean even before the War.

What I picked up up from the links were the Ojibwa were incredibly brave, excellent sharpshooters, and took far more advantage of using pine branches and other natural coverage to use for concealment than regular infantry did, so they were ahead of the army's time on that. And that would fit most any Indian warrior - they just don't back down and almost all Indian games, even today, are aimed at building hand to eye coordination.

So how do you see yourself portraying this? The only "Indian" thing was that the Ojibwa had a Bible in Ojibwa that was captured.

I also found this concerning a member of Co. K
"A soldier from the 14th NC remembered; As we drove them back one Indian took refuge behind a tree. We saw him and supposed he would surrender. As we moved on he shot our color bearer . T. J. Watkins picked up a satchel with beautiful figured work there on made with various colored beads "
Company K wore Union uniforms but it doesn't surprise me that some carried traditional useful items.

 

[archieclement]

Getting back to the original poster's intent. How do you think you would portray a Native American, @Dullknife? Looking at your links, it was very much as I expected, nobody was wearing regalia. The one Pequot was in the USCT - they have an unhappy history because they, as a native group, had much darker skin (roughly half) so half of them were sold as slaves down to the Caribbean even before the War.

What I picked up up from the links were the Ojibwa were incredibly brave, excellent sharpshooters, and took far more advantage of using pine branches and other natural coverage to use for concealment than regular infantry did, so they were ahead of the army's time on that. And that would fit most any Indian warrior - they just don't back down and almost all Indian games, even today, are aimed at building hand to eye coordination.

So how do you see yourself portraying this? The only "Indian" thing was that the Ojibwa had a Bible in Ojibwa that was captured.

Not aware of a Ojibwa unit with Stand Watie. Regt under his command was primarily from the five civilized tribes. Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Creek, and Seminole.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

Not aware of a Ojibwa unit with Stand Watie. Regt under his command was primarily from the five civilized tribes. Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Creek, and Seminole.

That's fine but how do you portray any of them? They didn't wear regalia into battle. They were integrated into regular units. You don't want to become an army of one. If you want to reenact I would think you'd want to be able fall in with most any unit.

 

[archieclement]

That's fine but how do you portray any of them? They didn't wear regalia into battle. They were integrated into regular units. You don't want to become an army of one. If you want to reenact I would think you'd want to be able fall in with most any unit.

Actually accounts would show them not being able to fall in with regular CS units.

For example Native conduct at Pea Ridge was unlike other troops. And as far as dress, it would depend on what point of the war.

 

[archieclement]

Here's a description of Waties men at Cross Hollows in Feb 1862.

"Odd shirts and pants, moccasins, and hats with feathers sticking in them".

 

[archieclement]

As far as race a newspaper reporter reported McIntosh Creek Regt on way to PR as "a mixture of all ages and colors including many negroes"

Again the Indian units were not historically segregated, but could include purebloods, mixed bloods, whites, and negroes. So makes no sense to claim they should be portrayed segregated today on whims of some activists. Certainly isn't "blackface".

 

[archieclement]

Also account of them on the way to Pea Ridge.

"At the head, in a carriage, rode poetical and bewhiskered Pike, decked out like a Sioux in feathers, leggings, and beaded moccasins. His negro body servant Brutus accompanied him with tribal papers and payrolls in carpetbags. With Pike rode conservative John Ross in frock coat and stovepipe hat like Lincolns."

Certainly early in the war there wasn't any one look, but a variety of non regulation looks.

Edit-added- these accounts are from book General Stand Waties Confederate Indians

 

[Dullknife]

This was posted previously...the picture is interesting. The hat seems unusual and he appears to have on a beaded perhaps fingerwoven belt.....