Native ( Indian) portrayals?

[Dullknife]

Hello,
For a while now I have been interested in doing a native portryal a member of a homeguard unit or maybe representing one of Stand Watie's men.

Anyone here doing a portrayal like that or know any groups?

Thank you

 

[captaindrew]

Not aware of any groups doing a CW native impression but I have to imagine there's some interest out there somewhere. Down in Florida Seminole War reenactments are pretty popular and there's some groups doing that.

 

[Cryptic]

Hello,
For a while now I have been interested in doing a native portryal a member of a homeguard unit or maybe representing one of Stand Watie's men.

I am thinking that the biggest challenge would be determining how much native cultural items the men would have carried. These items were often customized per tribe via markings or bead work patterns.

On account that I read years ago stated that the various native factions identified each other tribally by sight. But... the source did not say how this was done.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

Down in Florida Seminole War reenactments are pretty popular and there's some groups doing that.

I think they're finally getting actual Seminoles to portray the Seminoles too. Which is good - not only for better authenticity, but also because white guys portraying Native Americans doesn't fly very well anymore, no matter how sincere and sympathetic the portrayal.

 

[Kurtlg]

I am thinking that the biggest challenge would be determining how much native cultural items the men would have carried. These items were often customized per tribe via markings or bead work patterns.

On account that I read years ago stated that the various native factions identified each other tribally by sight. But... the source did not say how this was done.

I have heard the same thing concerning eastern woodland tribes

 

[Cryptic]

I have heard the same thing concerning eastern woodland tribes

That makes sense as most of the Oklahoma tribal factions in the civil war were originally eastern woodland Indians who had been deported during the 'Trail of Tears'.

A certain number attributed these deportations with the federal government and by extension, the Union. Confederate sympathies could be strong. As a side note, CSA general Stand Watie (Cherokee) was the last CSA general to surrender.

 

[Dullknife]

Here's some info from Don Troiani.

https://www.facebook.com/104952196246190/photos/a.104962546245155/3811910518883654

One of the account Troiani has in his post describes what I think are mixbloods....A sincere respectful portrayal could be done by someone who doesnt have the Hollywood Indian look.

Some might not approve but Osprey has put on some books on Civil War in the Transmississippi West. There are some reasonable recreations in there and bibliographies.

 

[Story]

Period photos would be a good starting point, rare as they may be.
I can see where there could be a danger of over-interpretation, same as "dismounted Confederate cavalry"

See photo via link
Wounded American Indian Union sharpshooters rest beneath a tree at Brompton, the home of John L. Marye, in Fredericksburg, Virginia, May 14, 1864. Five days earlier, the First Michigan Sharpshooters, including Company K, had been heavily engaged at the Ni River during the Battle of the Spotsylvania Courthouse; the casualties were evacuated to Fredericksburg. Captain Edwin V. Andress is sitting under the tree facing forward; though non-Native, Andress spoke a number of Michigan Indian language dialects and recruited many of the Native sharpshooters. Sergeant Thomas "Ne-o-de-geshik" Ke Chittigo (Chippewa, 1836–1916), wounded on May 12, is seen standing to the right of the tree.

Civil War

Native American allegiances varied during the Civil War, but were often motivated by a common desire to protect tribal lands and lifeways. Approximately 3,503 Native Americans served in the Union Army.

americanindian.si.edu

Sgt Thomas Ke “Ne-o-de-geshik” Ke Chittigo...

(Suggested edit: Anishinabek or Abishinabe is the original name for the Chippewa or Ojibway. They occupy part of Canada and the United States. Contributor: HGWells (49850702)) Son of Abraham Ke Ke Chittego, born in Sault Ste Marie. Cause of death: Rheumatism and old age. He was the father of...

www.findagrave.com

Identity unknown

Native Americans in the Civil War - C&I Magazine

In the midst of a war fought on land that once was theirs, over a nation that denied them citizenship, Native Americans found themselves faced with a dubious decision: Whose side should they be fighting for?

www.cowboysindians.com

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

A certain number attributed these deportations with the federal government and by extension, the Union.

Which was shortsighted since the deportations from the South were at the behest of Southern interests.

Some of the reservation tribes sided with the Confederacy because they were slaveowners.

Most of the tribes had prewar divisions. If one part of the tribe decided to ally with the Union or Confederacy their rivals sometimes allied with the other side out of the simple "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." (Apparently this was also the motivation for a not insignificant number of white colonists in deciding whether to throw in with the Patriots or the Loyalists a century earlier.)

 

[archieclement]

I think they're finally getting actual Seminoles to portray the Seminoles too. Which is good - not only for better authenticity, but also because white guys portraying Native Americans doesn't fly very well anymore, no matter how sincere and sympathetic the portrayal.

Would be surprised if very many actually object to white native american portrayals. Think most realize the shortages of reenactors.

Would seem far preferable to ignoring their presence or participation.

 

[captaindrew]

Would be surprised if very many actually object to white native american portrayals. Think most realize the shortages of reenactors.

Would seem far preferable to ignoring their presence or participation.

I haven't done any of those events myself so I can't say first hand but I know a lot of guys that have and from what I gather they are very supportive of those events.

 

[Old Soldier]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

I don't personally know any dedicated group to the 1st Cherokee Mounted Rifles, or other Indian units North or South. I have however known of several more dedicated reenactors portray them for an event, and I have friends who like to portray them in local LH's, (back when that was a thing in my area), and while I love ''em like family, they're portrayals were humiliatingly terrible. I do think on FB I've seen a group in Oklahoma that portrays them though, but I won't swear to it.

Too many folks want to run around in animal skins with a Confederate Kepi, and as someone who's read deeply into the "Five Civilized Tribes" during the war, and as someone with Cherokee blood, I'm pretty insulted.

Most of the tribes up in modern Oklahoma were WAY more civilized, educated, and more fastidious in dress than whites by the time of the CW! Some cultural items like for the Cherokee such as the turban style headdress, and very colorful coats were a thing, but they had a higher literacy rate and were usually mixed blood.

There's just too much to unpack history wise, but it is an area of reenacting that desperately needs to be done and done right.

 

[johan_steele]

All I can say is don't. There is little more insulting than a bad impression of your ancestors. Natives have been getting insulted for generations by white people there's no need to add to it.

Even if acting with genuine intent to get things right it's very easy to make a simple mistake and journey into insulting.

Honestly, I was insulted once by seeing a white guy pretending to be Indian and doing a REALLY bad job at it. Hollywood is not history and there were no Comanche with the CS.

Most Lakota I know believe there are enough of the Iwishiwas and Wannabe tribe already. No need for more. FWIW I got/ get along with the Lakota as well as I do because I know I'm not indian and don't t pretend to be. White man pretending to be Indian is no less insulting than a white guy putting on black face.

 

[Kurtlg]

I watched a YouTube video of a reenactor portraying a Wyandot (Huron) from the 1750s at an event at Fort Niagara . He had Wyandot ancestry through his grandmother and explained in detail the things he wore and carried. He said the quill pattern on his knife sheath would identify him as Wyandot to other woodland tribes. .
In the comments he got skewered for wearing the wrong sash , the wrong hair roach , the tinkling cones , etc . Most of these comments seemed to come from others with Native American heritage yet I wonder how they would know exactly what their ancestors wore in the 1750s. Would similar criticism happen to some one portraying NA Civil War reenactors ? I would think so.
In any case the subject of tribal recognition is interesting to me. Would beadwork worn identify a person as being from a certain tribe in the trans- Mississippi ?

 

[johan_steele]

I watched a YouTube video of a reenactor portraying a Wyandot (Huron) from the 1750s at an event at Fort Niagara . He had Wyandot ancestry through his grandmother and explained in detail the things he wore and carried. He said the quill pattern on his knife sheath would identify him as Wyandot to other woodland tribes. .
In the comments he got skewered for wearing the wrong sash , the wrong hair roach , the tinkling cones , etc . Most of these comments seemed to come from others with Native American heritage yet I wonder how they would know exactly what their ancestors wore in the 1750s. Would similar criticism happen to some one portraying NA Civil War reenactors ? I would think so.
In any case the subject of tribal recognition is interesting to me. Would beadwork worn identify a person as being from a certain tribe in the trans- Mississippi ?

A good tracker could identify a Lakota, Cheyenne or Crow by the moccasin they wore… and visually by the clothing and war paint. I've never understood it but I wasn't born and bred in that environment. Neither were many Indians today yet the hate between the Lakota & the Crow is still there and it is very real. That is but one example.

 

[Kurtlg]

A good tracker could identify a Lakota, Cheyenne or Crow by the moccasin they wore… and visually by the clothing and war paint. I've never understood it but I wasn't born and bred in that environment. Neither were many Indians today yet the hate between the Lakota & the Crow is still there and it is very real. That is but one example.

I am aware of the Crow-Lakota issue. I am not aware of any issues amongst eastern tribal members despite centuries of intertribal warfare. Maybe it's because this happened a longer time ago .

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

All I can say is don't. There is little more insulting than a bad impression of your ancestors. Natives have been getting insulted for generations by white people there's no need to add to it.

Even if acting with genuine intent to get things right it's very easy to make a simple mistake and journey into insulting.

Honestly, I was insulted once by seeing a white guy pretending to be Indian and doing a REALLY bad job at it. Hollywood is not history and there were no Comanche with the CS.

Most Lakota I know believe there are enough of the Iwishiwas and Wannabe tribe already. No need for more. FWIW I got/ get along with the Lakota as well as I do because I know I'm not indian and don't t pretend to be. White man pretending to be Indian is no less insulting than a white guy putting on black face.

To be fair, by the time of the CW mixed blood tribal members were a thing. One example comes to my mind is the author of a "Creek Warrior for the Confederacy" is a mention that he, (or a relative?) having red hair due to Scottish blood or something or other.

To me there's nothing wrong with portraying the "Five Civilized Tribes" during the war, even by whites with a tan, IF it's done right. Which even amongst campaigner types I've never seen done.

Due to recent leaving my old reenacting unit, and trying to explore having a Tredegar 2.25in Mountain Rifle cast, and doing horse drawn artillery with one of those small guns, one of the options for a portrayal here in the Trans-Mississippi with that unique gun would be "Lee's Texas Battery" which is a very hard to research battery that had two such gun, that was mixed Cherokee and White Texans.

Such portrayals: Good
Whites with feathers and animal skins: Terrible on every conceivable level, especially history!

 

[johan_steele]

I am aware of the Crow-Lakota issue. I am not aware of any issues amongst eastern tribal members despite centuries of intertribal warfare. Maybe it's because this happened a longer time ago .

I never understood the degree of animosity between the Lakota and Crow. But boy howdy was it real, at least in the early 90's. Want to see blood fly just call a Lakota a "dirty Crow." And that was among HS kids.

There was also animosity between Lakota a some other tribes but not to that level. But hey we see absolute hatred towards the US by some southerners today more than 150 years removed.

Different kind of war.

Something I will never forget was a Lakota commenting on "White people pretending to be indian… that's ok. But black face…. There is no difference."

 

[major bill]

I do find it a bit disrespectful for non Native Americans to dress up as Native Americans. The Native American groups in my state look down on this.