Lorenz questions

[Southern Articifer]

I am just beginning to learn about Lorenz rifles, so I've got questions. Here's what I know now. The most common Lorenz is the model 1854 in .54 caliber, but I see them also inventoried in .577 cal. and .58 cal. These .577 and .58's are listed as rifled muskets yet the only difference between the rifle and the rifled musket is the bore size, so are they not just both rifles with 2 different bore sizes? Also, the locks are dated from 849 thru 864. All are altered from the previous model tube locks. I've seen locks of these vintages that have been altered even further by shaping them to the contours of the Enfield lock. Some are inventoried as 1855/56 and still called model 54's. This is puzzling to me. To further mystify me, there is a model 1862 which looks just like the model 1854, but has the Enfield style lock and a stirrup on its tumbler like an Enfield differentiating it from the model 55/56 which also have the Enfield shaped locks. Also, as I study on these Lorenz's, I find that one author on the subject states that none of the Lorenz's of the model 55/56 or model 1862 saw service in the Civil War("Firearms from Europe" by J.B.Whisker pages 78-86). But, in the book "Civil War Guns" by W.B.Edwards, there are many verses and examples on these exact models and their issue and use in the war even remarking on there Enfield styling. There's even an image of private Geo Atkinson with a model 55/56-62 on page 259. Thoughts and clarification on my question would be very helpful to me. Others as well.

 

[Don Dixon]

The search function is your friend. Having said that:

The Austro-Hungarian Army (k.k. Army) ordnance standard for bore diameter in Muster 1854 rifles (Type I and II infantry rifles, Jägerstutzen, and Dornstutzen) was .547 inches/13.9 mm. So, the bores were larger than that of the U.S. Army's .540 "54 caliber" weapons. Consequently, American ammunition -- both Federal and Confederate -- didn't fit the bores very well. Austrian contractors made some Muster 1854 weapons under contract for Federal purchasers in .540 and .580 caliber. Other Muster 1854 weapons were bored out to .577 to .600 by the Liege, Begium, gun trade for sale to the Federals. And, .547 weapons were bored out in America to .577 and .58 for the Federal Army. So, bore diameters will vary from .540 to .600. There is no "Model 55/56." k.k. Army weapons are designated by the date the Emperor approved production, and he did so for the System Lorenz weapons in December 1854.

Contemporary Federal documents tend to refer to Type I and II Muster 1854 weapons as "rifle muskets." Contemporary Confederate documents tend to refer to them as "rifles." But, there is no consistent nominclature on either side. They are not "rifled muskets," which is a weapon manufactured as smoothbore and subsequently rifled. But, you had clueless, rank amateurs with shoulder straps writing reports.....

When you have a standing army of 600,000 men you need to adopt economies of scale. So, the k.k. Army and Austrian ordnance contractors recyled locks from System Augustin tubelock weapons into Muster 1854 weapons by re-profiling them to fit the bolster on the Muster 1854 barrel. The lockplate dates for legitimate Civil War imported Muster 1854 weapons will range from approximately "842" to "862". Unmarked lockplates are one of the indications that the weapon was manufactured by a contractor for export. These lockplates are unmarked because they never entered the Emperor's service. Other than the locks/lockplates, no Muster 1854 weapons are recycled tubelocks.

By 1861 the k.k. Army was experimenting with gun cotton as a propelant in its small arms. The Muster 1862 design -- the one with the "Enfield style" lock -- was a product improved design which had a cast steel barrel rather than wrought iron to give a higher degree of safety with gun cotton ammunition. It also used a smaller lock which Ritter von Lorenz had designed for the Muster 1860 pistol.

Having supplies of left over parts which they conld no loger sell to the k.k. Army due to the Muster 1862 model change, Austrian ordnance contractors cobbled them together in the style of the Muster 1862 rifle. They generally used tubelock lockplates which were reshaped to a Muster 1862/Enfield style, but are significantly larger than the true Muster 1862 lockplates. In general, these pseudo-1862 weapons are the worst of the System Lorenz weapons imported by the Federals during the Civil War.

There is almost nothing in secondary English language sources which is worth reading on System Lorenz weapons, which is why I'm writing a book on them.

Regards,
Don Dixon

 

[Craig L Barry]

And that will be a book long overdue and well worth reading.

 

[thomas aagaard]

Looking forward to a good book about it.

 

[Southern Articifer]

I have been doing searches as suggested but found pretty generic info on the Lorenz system. The additional info Mr. Dixon added is helpful. I would still like to find more details on the lock variant I asked about. I'll keep looking. I do have some more questions beyond the locks. The tall block sight on the standard infantry Lorenz, what range were they trained at? And, on the .58 cal, did they use the compression bullet or a hollow base mini? Thanks ....

 

[Jobe Holiday]

As I understand it, the .58 caliber guns were bored and rifled for use over here, hence they would use our .58 caliber hollow base Burton Ball. The rear sight will be sighted for so many Schritt, the Austrian marching pace at the time. I'm quite sure Mr. Dixon can tell us exactly what the set sight range is, if he hasn't already done so in one of his earlier posts!
J.

 

[Don Dixon]

Enblock rear sight:

The rear sight was calibrated to a point blank distance of 300 Schritt [246 yards/225 meters]. A Schritt was a military pace of 29.5 inches. At distances of up to 150 Schritt [123 yards/112 meters], the Austrian soldier was taught to align the top of the front sight with the base of the sighting notch in the rear sight and to aim at the abdomen of his enemy. At 200 Schritt [164 yards/150 meters], he was taught to use a fine sight -- placing the top of the front sight even with the top of the sighting notch in the rear sight - and to aim at the chest of his enemy. And, at 300 Schritt [246 yards/225 meters] he was taught to use a full sight - aligning the base of the front sight with the top of the rear sight notch - and to aim at the head of his enemy. Considerable emphasis was placed upon teaching range estimation; i.e., at what distances were portions of an enemy's body and equipment visable, and when did they become obscured.

Of course, since Federal and Confederate manufactured ammunition used a different bullet and powder charge than k.k. Army ammunition, the sights were not calibrated for American ammunition and the Federal and Confederate ordnance offices never translated the k.k. Army's rifle manual into English. Learning to use the sights then required range practice and competent instruction, which -- generally -- American Civil War soldiers on both sides never received. If you aimed by aligning the top of the front sight with the top of the rear sight and centered the aligned sights on the center of your enemy's chest, your shots would go over the top of his head at about 125 yards and not come back down into a danger space until about 250 yards. The ill-trained troops tried to compensate by filing the enblock sights down to achieve short range point of aim/point of impact. One rarely sees a full height System Lorenz Type I rear sight on a rifle used in the Civil War. But, it was all the fault of the shoddy, poorly built, inaccurate Austrian rifles, was'nt it. [LOL]

Muster 1862 Rifle Lock?:

Numerous pseudo-Muster 1862 rifles were imported by the Federals [see my comments above]. To the best of my knowledge, only two real Muster 1862 rifles were imported during the war: one in ".54 caliber" and one in .58. Both were imported for foreign materiel intelligence exploitation: the Federals were interested in the k.k. Army's gun cotton ammunition. Both were blown up in testing. Production of the Muster 1862 rifle began in 1862, and importation of foreign arms by the Federals essentially ended in 1863. Even by the Seven Weeks War with Prussia in 1866, the k.k. Army had not been fully rearmed with Muster 1862 weapons. So, few, if any, would have been available for export.

Regards,
Don Dixon