Collection Enfield Enigma

[John E.W. Morgan]

I'd like to run some markings of interest by members of this forum regarding a P 53 Enfield I acquired about a dozen years ago.

First, it has the number "273" stamped or impressed into the barrel tang.

Second, it has the "SH/G3" mark on the comb of the stock just in front of the butt plate tang.

Third, it has on it two separate but identical block letters "B" -- one on the comb of the stock just beside the SH/G3 mark, and the other on the actual butt plate tang.

Fourth, it has the "JC within oval" mark on the lock flat.

The "273" numbers on the barrel tang seem somewhat similar in appearance to one of several styles of engraved "lot numbers" on some Confederate Enfields.

SH/G3 marks are now interpreted in "The English Connection" as being the mark of an "unidentified Confederate viewer", although for some years before many collectors thought them to be the mark of Schuyler, Hartley & Graham of New York, and perhaps some still do.

Script "JC within an oval" marks are also now interpreted in "The English Connection" as being the mark of yet another "unidentified Confederate viewer". In addition, the book notes that this "JC within an oval" mark "appears on the wood flat opposite the lock on Pattern 1853 rifle muskets with 1862 / Tower marked locks and SH/G3 on the comb of the stock in front of the butt plate tang." This Enfield's lockplate is marked 1862 / Tower with the "JC within an oval" mark being impressed on its lock flat.

Block letters "B" on the comb of the stock are interpreted by virtually everyone as being the mark of "Bond", one of the five Confederate furnishers. (The two known "Beckwith / London" rifle muskets seeming to be the two known exceptions.)

Some years ago, I shared photos of this weapon with Tim Prince, and he emailed me back that "I really think it is the missing link Enfield, that proves the SHG# mark is a CS mark."

More recently, but still a couple of years ago, I emailed pics of this P53 to noted Enfield expert Bill Adams. He wrote me back saying he thought this Enfield was "puzzling" and said that "I do not immediately recall where there is another Enfield with a number stamped on the barrel tang" although he thought it possible that one collector that he sees perhaps once a year may have one.

I, like Bill, am not exactly sure what to make of this P53 Enfield. and therefore would welcome feedback from members of this forum on that score.

Are any members of this forum aware of any other potential Confederate-purchased Enfields with possible "lot numbers" stamped or impressed on the barrel tang. I ask this question realizing that this would indeed be an anomaly, yet also being aware that Barnett Confederate Enfields for the CS central govt., Georgia and South Carolina were stamped with lot numbers on the toe of the butt plate ... and ... that the North Carolina-purchased Enfields were stamped "N.C." on the breech of the barrel.

I've been collecting Civil War small arms and accoutrements for 35 years now, with an emphasis on Enfields.

 

[Papabyrd]

Very nice

 

[Old Soldier]

I note that the the breech screw alignment marks are not aligned, meaning that the tang has been removed at some time so the 'B' and the tang number MAY be the result of refurbishment. The plate flat initials are very like the official Union acceptance marks (JC = James Chattaway. Sample Arms. 1862-63) . so this COULD be a captured Confederate arm which was refurbished with a barrel new to it and registered. The SH/G# are typical of later Confederate contract weapons. HOWEVER, the barrel seems to bear a 24 in the proof mark = .58 and was only applied to later UNION purchases. Please check. The name stamped underneath may well be the stockmaker. ((not readable) JENKS ( of London)

Current thought - a 'captured' Confederate weapon refurbished and fitted with a .58 barrel in Union workshops and taken on register for Union forces. Except for the later Confederate contracts from the London Armoury Company (LAC - 70,000 rifles) ,all P53s supplied to both sides were from civilian gunmaker consortiums and thus not 100% 'interchangeable' so a refurbishment like this is possible.

BTW - The 'lot numbers' were only applied to second contract weapons (1862) and were ENGRAVED into butt plate tang (and repeated on bayonet socket and ramrod if you are THAT lucky!) Three batches of 10,000, each numbered 1-10,000. First batch, number only, second batch suffix 'A' ; third batch Suffix B. Suffixes were applied under the tang number. No others seem to have been numbered.

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

HOWEVER, the barrel seems to bear a 24 in the proof mark = .58 and was only applied to later UNION purchases.

This is simply untrue. There is no direct correlation between a bore size and who it was exported to.

 

[JOHN42768]

Your J.C cartouche is James Chattaway a U.S. inspector per "U.S. Military Arms Inspector Marks" by A. Daum and Charles Pate

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

Leaving aside the "B" mark and the 273 on the tang, this is a standard confederate inspected Model 1853 which will have three marks - the SH/G# on stock comb, the script JC in oval on the stock opposite the lock, and there will also be a mark at the end of the proof marks on the barrel consisting of two letters with an "*" between them, such as "R*W" and that will usually be upside down. I've seen dozens so marked, and always inspection marks these three places.

On course, inspected by viewer for confederate purchase does not mean actual purchase and if actually purchased, does not mean was actual delivery.

The "B" looks like the same stamp used on early delivered arms furnished by Bond - I've never see it stamped on the metal tang, only the wood, but it looks like that same stamp. But this is a Birmingham proofed gun, and not a London proofed gun; Bond made guns in London and so should have London proofs. It could be that Bond purchased some Birmingham guns on the open market to complete an order - Barnett did this sometime, stamping "BARNETT" into the wood opposite the lock on a gun otherwise completely Birmingham made!

The "B" might be a rack mark put onto the gun after delivery. I don't know...

The 273 is stamped, not engraved, and I don't know what it means. I know I've owned at least one Model 1853 with a three digit number in the same style stamped --- well, I don't remember where!

What I do know is that those three markings I first discussed are found, all three of them, on Enfields dated 1862, maybe 1863 (I don't have my references at hand as I write this).

I think both north and south bought Model 1853s in both 25 bore and 24 bore - if they needed arms, they bought what was offered to them at that time. I once owned a "24" bore Model 1853 pictured in "The English Connection" which was also marked with an SHC in oval on the metal of the barrel, and so a confederate viewed gun. (By the way, the book pictures, but does not explain, a WCC marking on the barrel - this is a movie prop house mark of the Western Costume Company - and it also has an "MGM" stamp - it was sold at the great MGM prop sale of several decades ago).

 

[John E.W. Morgan]

Yes, I too had noticed the lack of precise calibration between the breech alignment marks.

To be continured ...

I note that the the breech screw alignment marks are not aligned, meaning that the tang has been removed at some time so the 'B' and the tang number MAY be the result of refurbishment. The plate flat initials are very like the official Union acceptance marks (JC = James Chattaway. Sample Arms. 1862-63) . so this COULD be a captured Confederate arm which was refurbished with a barrel new to it and registered. The SH/G# are typical of later Confederate contract weapons. HOWEVER, the barrel seems to bear a 24 in the proof mark = .58 and was only applied to later UNION purchases. Please check. The name stamped underneath may well be the stockmaker. ((not readable) JENKS ( of London)

Current thought - a 'captured' Confederate weapon refurbished and fitted with a .58 barrel in Union workshops and taken on register for Union forces. Except for the later Confederate contracts from the London Armoury Company (LAC - 70,000 rifles) ,all P53s supplied to both sides were from civilian gunmaker consortiums and thus not 100% 'interchangeable' so a refurbishment like this is possible.

BTW - The 'lot numbers' were only applied to second contract weapons (1862) and were ENGRAVED into butt plate tang (and repeated on bayonet socket and ramrod if you are THAT lucky!) Three batches of 10,000, each numbered 1-10,000. First batch, number only, second batch suffix 'A' ; third batch Suffix B. Suffixes were applied under the tang number. No others seem to have been numbered.

Yes, I too had noticed the lack of precise calibration between the breech alignment marks.

Regarding the "JC within an oval" mark on the lock flat, "The English Collection" authors seem to discount its prior association with James Chattaway and rather consider it "another mark of unidentified Confederate viewers" until definitively proven otherwise. (See first attached image.) As a collector and researcher, I appreciate all individual and prior published research (as in the earlier "The Gun Report" magazine article), but also try to factor in the latest unpublished and published research as well (as in "The English Connection"). Analyzing the Enfield family of Civil War weapons is a never-ending endeavor and passion, and I don't necessarily blindly follow the latest research information. But I do consider its source, and weigh it against all that I have learned before from other sources.

The Enfield has standard Birmingham proof marks with "24" bore stamps indicating 58 caliber, as opposed to "25" bore stamps indicating 577 caliber. (Based on my personal collecting experience I do not believe that "24" bore stamps necessarily indicate Federal or Confederate purchase.) It also has the small stamped letters "J" dot P" above and to the right of the Birmingham proof marks, which are likely inspector's initials. (See second attached image.) The stamping on the belly of the stock reads "Emanuel Jenks", a known Birmingham gun maker.

Your "current thought" regarding the P53 may have been retrieved and refurbished is certainly a possibility, however both the patina and the pitting on both sides of the alignment marks seem to be identical, and may indicate that barrel tang with breech plug and the barrel may all be original components. I was aware of the lack of interchangeability on hand-made and hand-fitted Enfields, and also aware of the second contract particulars of Confederate markings on those Enfields, as I own a fair number of these weapons, many with matching butt plate tang and ramrod engraved numbers. ... Thanks much for your reply, Old Soldier

 

[bayonet]

I have a BOND and you would think the lockplate would by stamped EP BOND as in mine not TOWER. Yes there is a B stamped on the barrel tang. Want more info on it go back to 3/13/21 were I posted pics and it was discussed under "enfield marks union or reb".

 

[John E.W. Morgan]

Thank you for this reference source, John. I was aware of the prior published research regarding the "JC within an oval" mark in "The Gun Report" magazine, but was not aware that this was also published in "U.S. Military Arms Inspector Marks" by A. Daum and Charles Pate.

As I mentioned earlier in my reply to Old Solider regarding this "JC in oval" mark, published sources can and do disagree at times.
The authors of "The English Collection" apparently discount the mark's prior association with James Chattaway and rather consider it "another mark of unidentified Confederate viewers" until definitively proven otherwise. They may or may not be correct.

While I don't necessarily blindly follow the latest research information, I do consider its source, and weigh it against all that I have learned before from other individuals and from other published sources.

As I mentioned in my initial post in this thread, the SH/G1 through SH/G5 series of marks are now interpreted by the authors of "The English Connection" as being the mark of an "unidentified Confederate viewer", although for some years before many collectors thought them to be the mark of Schuyler, Hartley & Graham of New York denoting a federally purchased Enfield. And I know of more than one advanced collector who still firmly believe that the SH/G series of marks is that of Schuyler, Hartley & Graham and not a mark indicating Confederate purchase as "TEC" more recently opines. Barring documented and conclusive evidence, who is to say what the definitive, absolute truth is?

 

[John E.W. Morgan]

Leaving aside the "B" mark and the 273 on the tang, this is a standard confederate inspected Model 1853 which will have three marks - the SH/G# on stock comb, the script JC in oval on the stock opposite the lock, and there will also be a mark at the end of the proof marks on the barrel consisting of two letters with an "*" between them, such as "R*W" and that will usually be upside down.

Agreed. And this Enfield also has a two letter inspection mark of "J" dot P" above and to the right of the Birmingham proof marks, but not upside down. (See photo in my reply to Old Soldier)


On course, inspected by viewer for confederate purchase does not mean actual purchase and if actually purchased, does not mean was actual delivery.

Agreed.


The "B" might be a rack mark put onto the gun after delivery. I don't know...
Agreed. I don't know either.


The 273 is stamped, not engraved, and I don't know what it means.

Agreed. And I don't know what it means either. Thus the primary reason for my post.



I know I've owned at least one Model 1853 with a three digit number in the same style stamped --- well, I don't remember where!

Interesting. Did you take any pics of it when you owned it?


What I do know is that those three markings I first discussed are found, all three of them, on Enfields dated 1862, maybe 1863 (I don't have my references at hand as I write this).
I don't know for sure, but the reference book you are referring to could be "The English Connection" ... as the first paragraph on Page 117 says much the same thing. It mentions two of those three markings, but not the two-letter inspector's mark above and to the right of the Birmingham proof marks.


I think both north and south bought Model 1853s in both 25 bore and 24 bore - if they needed arms, they bought what was offered to them at that time. I once owned a "24" bore Model 1853 pictured in "The English Connection" which was also marked with an SHC in oval on the metal of the barrel, and so a confederate viewed gun. (By the way, the book pictures, but does not explain, a WCC marking on the barrel - this is a movie prop house mark of the Western Costume Company - and it also has an "MGM" stamp - it was sold at the great MGM prop sale of several decades ago).


Agreed regarding both combatants using P53s with both 25 bore and 24 bore.

I remember well when you had that particular SHC-marked-in-the-barrel P53 for sale, I believe on the "Gunbroker" website, many years ago. I was interested in it at the time, and for once, my wife was interested in it also, due to the markings of the Western Costume Company and the "MGM" stamp. She liked the idea of it possibly being used in "Gone With The Wind." ... Thanks much for your feedback, Jeff.

 

[John E.W. Morgan]

I have a BOND and you would think the lockplate would by stamped EP BOND as in mine not TOWER. Yes there is a B stamped on the barrel tang. Want more info on it go back to 3/13/21 were I posted pics and it was discussed under "enfield marks union or reb".

Thanks much for your reply, Bayonet. Later today I will look up your post of March 13, 2021 and get back with you.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

Leaving aside the "B" mark and the 273 on the tang, this is a standard confederate inspected Model 1853 which will have three marks - the SH/G# on stock comb, the script JC in oval on the stock opposite the lock, and there will also be a mark at the end of the proof marks on the barrel consisting of two letters with an "*" between them, such as "R*W" and that will usually be upside down.

Agreed. And this Enfield also has a two letter inspection mark of "J" dot P" above and to the right of the Birmingham proof marks, but not upside down. (See photo in my reply to Old Soldier)


On course, inspected by viewer for confederate purchase does not mean actual purchase and if actually purchased, does not mean was actual delivery.

Agreed.


The "B" might be a rack mark put onto the gun after delivery. I don't know...
Agreed. I don't know either.


The 273 is stamped, not engraved, and I don't know what it means.

Agreed. And I don't know what it means either. Thus the primary reason for my post.



I know I've owned at least one Model 1853 with a three digit number in the same style stamped --- well, I don't remember where!

Interesting. Did you take any pics of it when you owned it?


What I do know is that those three markings I first discussed are found, all three of them, on Enfields dated 1862, maybe 1863 (I don't have my references at hand as I write this).
I don't know for sure, but the reference book you are referring to could be "The English Connection" ... as the first paragraph on Page 117 says much the same thing. It mentions two of those three markings, but not the two-letter inspector's mark above and to the right of the Birmingham proof marks.


I think both north and south bought Model 1853s in both 25 bore and 24 bore - if they needed arms, they bought what was offered to them at that time. I once owned a "24" bore Model 1853 pictured in "The English Connection" which was also marked with an SHC in oval on the metal of the barrel, and so a confederate viewed gun. (By the way, the book pictures, but does not explain, a WCC marking on the barrel - this is a movie prop house mark of the Western Costume Company - and it also has an "MGM" stamp - it was sold at the great MGM prop sale of several decades ago).


Agreed regarding both combatants using P53s with both 25 bore and 24 bore.

I remember well when you had that particular SHC-marked-in-the-barrel P53 for sale, I believe on the "Gunbroker" website, many years ago. I was interested in it at the time, and for once, my wife was interested in it also, due to the markings of the Western Costume Company and the "MGM" stamp. She liked the idea of it possibly being used in "Gone With The Wind." ... Thanks much for your feedback, Jeff.

Two topics only:

When I mentioned not having my "references" at hand, I was thinking of photos I've taken over the years, not books or articles.
That's also where I might find mention of that three digit stamp I remember.

As for the WCCo / MGM stamped Model 1853, I found the page of the big auction sale catalog from 1970, identifying it by the MGM #___ stamped on it! It didn't state what films it was used in. Gone with the Wind likely used all the Enfields in stock, eh?

Here's a screen capture of the gun storage room at MGM before that auction - the actual auction included much more.

 

[bayonet]

Two topics only:

When I mentioned not having my "references" at hand, I was thinking of photos I've taken over the years, not books or articles.
That's also where I might find mention of that three digit stamp I remember.

As for the WCCo / MGM stamped Model 1853, I found the page of the big auction sale catalog from 1970, identifying it by the MGM #___ stamped on it! It didn't state what films it was used in. Gone with the Wind likely used all the Enfields in stock, eh?

Here's a screen capture of the gun storage room at MGM before that auction - the actual auction included much more.

View attachment 555248

Where was I when that auction happenedoh wait 1970 I was in 5th grade. Never mind

 

[Old Soldier]

This is simply untrue. There is no direct correlation between a bore size and who it was exported to.

YES it was, There are some that start 25 (577) and end as 24 (.58) IOW a rebore to the standard US caliber. The Confederates took them as .577/25-bore. The US took whatever was available, but preferred the .58s.

I have a BOND and you would think the lockplate would by stamped EP BOND as in mine not TOWER. Yes there is a B stamped on the barrel tang. Want more info on it go back to 3/13/21 were I posted pics and it was discussed under "enfield marks union or reb".

TOWER was the standard term for a civilian consortium or a large gunmaking firm producing arms for the government and sent for checking to the Tower of London. That stopped around 1810 and they were checked on the premises. Even this had ended when Enfield took over full interchangeable mass production around 1859. The consortium worked on a unit basis so the lock was made by the lockmaker, the stock by the stockmaker, etc. The parts were sent to a central location where they were assembled - Bond, for example, would not have made ALL the parts, but may well have stamped 'Bond' or 'EPB' INSIDE the lockplate. Government examiners checked at intervals for government contracts and stamped the parts examined. None of the weapons supplied to either side were produced by Enfield or official government suppliers. Many of the stamped parts found in the earlier batches - usually small lock mech parts like sears or tumblers, were overproduced much earlier and were 'spare' when the US and CS contracts started. Although supposed to be made 'to pattern' they were assembled by fitters without much checking.. The early supplies, especially for the Confederacy came from London makers who stamped their own names on the parts somewhere. As time - and production - went on, 'TOWER' became associated with the smaller Birmingham makers.

On course, inspected by viewer for confederate purchase does not mean actual purchase and if actually purchased, does not mean was actual delivery.

Agreed.

It is on record over here that batches were prepared and ready for shipment, but, especially in the last few years, no Confederate money appeared. No money, no guns, and the batch was sold on to the Federals!

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

YES it was, There are some that start 25 (577) and end as 24 (.58) IOW a rebore to the standard US caliber. The Confederates took them as .577/25-bore. The US took whatever was available, but preferred the .58s.

Which contract(s), agent instructions, inspection reports, etc indicate that the US government was actively looking for 24 bore Enfields?

I have never seen a single original document to support the assertion that they "preferred" .58 caliber P1853s. Sure, logistically speaking that would make more sense, but the US Ordnance Department solved that issue by reducing the size of American .58 caliber ammunition throughout the war.

There are plenty of surviving Confederate purchased P53s that are 24 bore. Given that an Enfield with any kind of markings on it that conclusively prove it was a US purchase is a pretty rare thing, I have personally seen many more Confederate marked 24 bore guns than Federally inspected ones. 24 bore guns are certainly a minority, but they aren't exceptionally rare especially when you open your sample size up to include guns that have no markings to indicate who they were sold to.

There are also guns that exist with provisional 24 bore proofs that were finished as 25 bore. And guns opened up from 26 bore. I have even owned a provisional and definitive proofed double 26 gun.

Here are some photos of a CS central government numbered P1853, #7743. It's a CW James gun with his furnisher letter, JS anchor stamped, with a SHC in oval marked barrel, and a SHG2 behind the trigger guard. It's also a double 24 bore gun.

 

[scooter748driver]

Here's mine for comparison if it helps:

 

[John E.W. Morgan]

Thanks much for your reply, Bayonet. Later today I will look up your post of March 13, 2021 and get back with you.

Hello again Bayonet. I have just within the last half hour returned home for the evening. And I have since returning home looked up your post and thread initiated on March 13, 2021. It was a pleasure to read this thread from beginning to end … what with you and all of the other individuals posting sound information that rings true like a clarion bell … !!! … It is much too late at present to comment on the various messages and replies within your thread, but I certainly intend to comment on it in some detail tomorrow. Thanks, Bayonet, for calling it to my attention.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

Grayrock's gun has about all the markings, the tang engraved number, the J stamped ahead of that in the wood, the JS / Anchor and the crown over SHG2, and the finally the SH/C in oval on the metal. All those markings look right as rain to my eye, and links the classic confederate viewer inspections marks (tang serial, J, JS / anchor and the SHC) with the Crown / SH / G2 mark.
A look at some photos of Enfields I did own, but not longer have, shows that most the SHG# ones were 24 - 24 bore, and had inspectors marks in script in oval on the wood of JC or HL or HB.

 

[Old Soldier]

The more we say about these guns, the more we learn in reply. Documentation is not the only source of information. The standard available caliber was 25-bore (.577) so why change to .28 (24-bore) which was not a standard BRITISH bore? That meant changing tools and test gauges, if not procedures. VERY expensive. That could only mean SOMEONE decided to change it. IOW - the purchasers were not buying 'off the shelf'. Somewhere in the specification it must have stated the bore specifically. Since the British standard bore and ammunition for these guns was .577, any change would have to be for another customer. Enfield was now supplying OUR Volunteers so the .58s could not be sold on to Volunteers in Britain so what do you do if your contract fails?

The change to .58 may well have been a switch to US caliber because that was the most promising market AT THE TIME. However, that change would still be in any contract. All contracts had specifications. Whether those were carefully recorded and filed is a debateable point. Once the War was over and the market had moved on, were these records carefully stored? Were they ever needed? Could keeping them have incured some legal action?

The later Confederate viewers (SHG# & SHC) seem to be the ones to .58, so had there been a change in supplier? The 24s APPEAR to be Birmingham-proofed ( X ## X ##) not London V ## CP )? BTW - Any with 14.4 (577) or 14.7 (.58) underneath the barrel near the backsight, are likely to be BELGIAN in origin (bore in mm) even if they have a UK proof - this was a standard quick and convenient way to get over a shortage of barrels when others could not supply).

Another point about Birmingham consortiums is that many of the firms were quite small compared to London's makers and were not as 'standard'. Again, contracts were still needed but the rather loose administration of the consortiums may well have caused some 'drifting'. Why Birmingham? London was the centre of British gunmaking at the time, how better to get around the London monopoly? Another supplier to the Confederacy was London Armoury Company which was the only one that was fully to Enfield/US standards that had been sub-contracted by Enfield and was thus late into the supply of P53s after completeing that contract in 1862.

**Birmingham Small Arms was a consortium of 14 small companies that did not get under way as a company until 1863 when it bought in machinery to make guns to Enfield standards (the 'American System'). Enfield took some 6 years to attain it's standards using a similar production line method.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

I am interested in knowing about the 24 vs 25 bore sizes.
As this time in the world, was there any other country who used .58 caliber (24 bore) size barrels?

One point I've never considered before is that the South had some of the Model 1855s in both rifle-musket and rifle configuration that were made before the War, and were in .58. The southern made versions of these (the Richmond rifle-musket and the Fayetteville rifle) were made in 58. And as the War progressed, the South supplied its armies with all the .58 yankee made guns that could be captured or picked up off the battlefields.

So, .58 caliber (24 bore) WAS a standard caliber for both North and South.

Perhaps the manufacturers decided that even if not ordered in .58 on a southern contract, once made, a .58 caliber arm could find a buyer from either side of the War.