Stonewall Jackson's lemons

[kevikens]

Whittling and cigar smoking at the same time? Big deal. Now if Grant could had whittled, and smoked and sucked lemons at the same time, he would have been promoted to that Lieutenant General rank right after Shiloh.

 

[peteanddelmar]

Whittling and cigar smoking at the same time? Big deal. Now if Grant could had whittled, and smoked and sucked lemons at the same time, he would have been promoted to that Lieutenant General rank right after Shiloh.

LOL!

 

[W. Richardson]

For me, anything Robertson says about Jackson is gospel! But you're right - we should always question things, even when we're sure. The Early Life and Letters of General Thomas J Jackson, by his nephew Thomas Jackson Arnold, contains a correspondence (1852) between Stonewall and his sister about peaches:

https://books.google.com/books?id=dRpCAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA191&lpg=PA191&dq=thomas j jackson and peaches&source=bl&ots=AJmGsOEHS9&sig=ptSEwVurJcNZyYFJbPhFZGuZJBU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KYzjVMSSE87aoAT7h4CIBw&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=thomas j jackson and peaches&f=false

Thank you Diane, this could very well be the source that Robertson used, though I find it a stretch to say "peaches were his favorite" based on this. Securing 2 or 3 bushels could speak volumes toward that. I would not think he would eat 2 or 3 bushels..............lol ....but if he did then I would have to say that "peaches were his favorite".....Thank you for posting and sharing this. It throws some light on the issue.

Respectfully,

William

 

[TerryB]

During the siege of Petersburg, Lee mentions getting some lemons from some well-meaning ladies and that he distributed them to the troops. I read that in Letters and Recollections of R.E. Lee. I think the book is online, so I'll check

 

[diane]

During the siege of Petersburg, Lee mentions getting some lemons from some well-meaning ladies and that he distributed them to the troops. I read that in Letters and Recollections of R.E. Lee. I think the book is online, so I'll check

Lee usually did that with whatever foodstuffs he was given...except buttermilk! Usually it went to the wounded, I think.

 

[TerryB]

Lee usually did that with whatever foodstuffs he was given...except buttermilk! Usually it went to the wounded, I think.

All I've found so far is that Mary wanted to send him a barrel of apples and he told her she should keep it. He talked about the need for socks and that if 200 or 300 ladies would knit some in addition to those he already distributed, they would have enough. He got other gifts as well, such as eggs and popcorn. Makes me think the lemons may have been sent to him at Fredericksburg. But I do know he mentioned some in a letter, and that he doesn't seem astonished that they were available.

 

[diane]

All I've found so far is that Mary wanted to send him a barrel of apples and he told her she should keep it. He talked about the need for socks and that if 200 or 300 ladies would knit some in addition to those he already distributed, they would have enough. He got other gifts as well, such as eggs and popcorn. Makes me think the lemons may have been sent to him at Fredericksburg. But I do know he mentioned some in a letter, and that he doesn't seem astonished that they were available.

I have to laugh about the socks, though. Lee would personally examine every pair - can't have footsore soldiers! - and would send back Mildred's because the heel was wrong. "Can you not teach her that stitch?" he asked!

 

[rhettbutler1865]

Works for me and thanks for posting...............IMHO to eat a lemon at all, one must "like it" but I am sure they were not his favored.......lol, after all it was a lemon of a fruit

Respectfully,

William

I have read that some of his officers noticed he enjoyed a lemon before battle--but, as has beenstated, peaches were his favorite.

 

[rhettbutler1865]

Just yesterday I was driving down the valley and stopped for lunch in Lexington. I drove right past the Stonewall cemetery and couldn't resist just driving in given that I was right there. I snapped this quick photograph because I was a bit surprised by how many lemons were at his grave! After more than 150 years after his death there is still steady stream of lemons dropped off there in honor of the general and his notorious love of the sour fruit. Thought someone else here might get a kick out of this as well.
View attachment 59039

Being in Minnesota, I envy those who can "drive by" CW sites, monuments, etc.--Nice photo!

 

[Foosfoos]

 

[W. Richardson]

I have read that some of his officers noticed he enjoyed a lemon before battle--but, as has beenstated, peaches were his favorite.

I have seen it "stated" but I have not seen a source for this statement, other than in James I. (Bud) Robertson's book Stonewall Jackson: The Man, The Soldier, The Legend, and he gave no source. I am not saying that peaches were not Jackson's favored, nor that Mr. Robertson made it up, but I have not been able to find a source.
However I also have not had access to the sources that Mr. Robertson had...........You would have thought that he would have quoted a source.

If anyone can provide the source of the statement I would appreciate it.

Respectfully,

William

 

[diane]

I have seen it "stated" but I have not seen a source for this statement, other than in James I. (Bud) Robertson's book Stonewall Jackson: The Man, The Soldier, The Legend, and he gave no source. I am not saying that peaches were not Jackson's favored, nor that Mr. Robertson made it up, but I have not been able to find a source.
However I also have not had access to the sources that Mr. Robertson had...........You would have thought that he would have quoted a source.

If anyone can provide the source of the statement I would appreciate it.

Respectfully,

William

I think it's just an accumulation of evidence. There are more references to Jackson eating peaches than any other fruit, lemons or otherwise. Dr. McQuire gave him a box, knowing he liked them. Hunter McQuire, his aide, related sharing peaches with Jackson at Antietam as he had come with his saddlebags full of them, knowing they were his favorite. Seems everybody was giving him peaches more than any other fruit. But, in the country Jackson grew up in, peaches and apples were very common. His mother, as a matter of fact, happened to be born in a peach orchard!

 

[W. Richardson]

I think it's just an accumulation of evidence. There are more references to Jackson eating peaches than any other fruit, lemons or otherwise. Dr. McQuire gave him a box, knowing he liked them. Hunter McQuire, his aide, related sharing peaches with Jackson at Antietam as he had come with his saddlebags full of them, knowing they were his favorite. Seems everybody was giving him peaches more than any other fruit. But, in the country Jackson grew up in, peaches and apples were very common. His mother, as a matter of fact, happened to be born in a peach orchard!

Thank you Diane............That seems logical then and is more than likely as to what Mr. Robertson used. I was just not able to find any references to peaches being Jackson's favorite in what sources I had checked and researched. I had read somewhere that, as you stated, his mother was born in a peach orchard..........Again thanks for posting.

Respectfully,

William

 

[diane]

Thank you Diane............That seems logical then and is more than likely as to what Mr. Robertson used. I was just not able to find any references to peaches being Jackson's favorite in what sources I had checked and researched. I had read somewhere that, as you stated, his mother was born in a peach orchard..........Again thanks for posting.

Respectfully,

William

Sometimes things aren't definitely stated but true anyway! I guess I should add Jackson's mom wasn't just born in an orchard like a kitten - there was a log cabin there... A year or so ago they put up a sign to commemorate the spot, which is kind of nice!

 

[W. Richardson]

Sometimes things aren't definitely stated but true anyway! I guess I should add Jackson's mom wasn't just born in an orchard like a kitten - there was a log cabin there... A year or so ago they put up a sign to commemorate the spot, which is kind of nice!

Well now let's not get carried away just yet. I can agree sometimes things aren't definitely stated but true anyway, but do we get to choose which ones ? I did some more follow up research on the information given in your previous post.

The first source I found, which I suppose would be called the primary source was…….

The Confederate Cause and Conduct in the War Between the States by Hunter McGuire, M.D. Page 204.
See also:
Hunter McGuire, "General T. J. ('Stonewall') Jackson, Confederate States Army: His Career and Character," SHSP 25 (1897): 95, 101;

I found this……..

"About one o'clock that day I rode forward to see the General. I found him a little to the left of the Dunkard church. I remember that I had my saddle-pockets filled with peaches to take to him knowing how much he enjoyed fruit — and was eating a peach when I approached him. The first thing he asked me was, if I had any more. I told him yes, that I had brought him some. After he got them he began to eat them ravenously, "

This was at the Battle of Antietam.

Now that pretty much clinched it for me that Jackson's favorite was peaches. He was eating them ravenously, which is what I do to something that is my favorite…………..But…………the rest of the statement says……..

"so much so, that he apologized and told me he had had nothing to eat that day."

Now a person who has not eaten all day and is hungry, in my opinion would possibly eat any fruit given to him ravenously. Jackson apologized for eating them ravenously and did not state they were his favorite. Also Hunter McGuire stated that "I had my saddle-pockets filled with peaches to take to him (Jackson) knowing how much he enjoyed fruit"


The second source I found was……..

Stonewall Jackson, A Biography by Ethan Sepp Rafuse Page 137

I found this, speaking also of the Battle Of Antietam……..

"By noon, whatever strain constantly being pushed to the brink of disaster that morning had inflicted on Jackson's nerves had clearly diminished. His spirits received a further boost when Hunter McGuire reached him with some peaches. Jackson happily accepted several and quickly devoured them."

No source was given for the above statement but was without much doubt taken from the source The Confederate Cause and Conduct in the War Between the States, or Hunter McGuire, "General T. J. ('Stonewall') Jackson, Confederate States Army: His Career and Character," SHSP 25 (1897): 95, 101;

but he changed it by leaving off a major part "he (Jackson) apologized and told me he had had nothing to eat that day." Not having anything to eat during the day is a reason for "quickly devouring" or "eating them ravenously". Not necessarily due to it being his favorite food/fruit.


The third source I found………

Taken at the Flood: Robert E. Lee and Confederate Strategy in the Maryland Campaign of 1862

By Joseph L. Harsh Page 407


"Around one o'clock Dr. Hunter McGuire, medical director for Jackson's command, left his hospital at the Smith farm near Lee's headquarters and rode to the left in search of Stonewall. McGuire found Jackson near the Dunkard Church and offered his chief peaches from his saddlebags. While Jackson, who said he had eaten nothing all day, devoured the peaches "ravenously,"

At the Battle Of Antietam.

Again obviously from……

The Confederate Cause and Conduct in the War Between the States by Hunter McGuire, M.D. Page 204.
Or
Hunter McGuire, "General T. J. ('Stonewall') Jackson, Confederate States Army: His Career and Character," SHSP 25 (1897): 95, 101;


The fourth source I found……..

Rebel Yell: The Violence, Passion, and Redemption of Stonewall Jackson by S.C. Gwynne Page 473

"At noon, surgeon Hunter McGuire met Jackson at his command post behind the lines at the Dunker church. McGuire was eating one of the peaches a local woman had given him. Jackson's face brightened when he saw his favorite fruit. "Do you have any more?" he asked. McGuire gave Jackson several pieces, which he consumed immediately and with great relish. He apologized to McGuire for his gluttony, saying it was the first food he had eaten all day."

At the Battle of Antietam.

Source note states taken from………

Stonewall Jackson: The Man, The Soldier, The Legend by James I. (Bud) Robertson Page 617

The only source I have found that states peaches were Jackson's favorite fruit was the above.


The fifth source I found……….

"Is it true that Jackson loved lemons?

Jackson was very concerned about his health and followed a strict diet which emphasized fruits and vegetables. Although he enjoyed almost every variety of fruit, he had no special fondness for lemons; in fact, peaches were his favorite. Civil War historian James I. Robertson, Jr., Jackson's biographer, states that "no member of Jackson's staff, no friend, not even his wife ever mentioned Jackson had a particular penchant for lemons," and refers to the "lemon myth." It is true that Jackson was observed eating lemons on several occasions during the war; this was due only to the fact that he ate whatever fruit was available. When the Confederates captured a Union camp, lemons were sometimes among the food stores that they confiscated; the Union soldiers received lemons and other fruits more frequently than did their Confederate counterparts. Despite the historical inaccuracy, the story remains popular. Tourists who visit Jackson's gravesite at Lexington, Virginia, often leave lemons as a tribute."

http://thomaslegion.net/general_stonewall_jackson_civil_war_timeline_death_virginia.html



Again peaches were his favorite ?………..But no source that I have found outside of Robertson's states that Jackson's favorite fruit was peaches. Also from my research, which I do not claim to be complete, but from all sources I can find, no member of Jackson's staff, no friend, not even his wife ever mentioned Jackson having a particular penchant for lemons, nor do they say he had a particular penchant for peaches.
Maybe, as I have said before, I am missing a source where Jackson, his wife, staff, or his friends state that peaches were his favorite fruit. If anyone has a source with that please send it my way so I can correct myself on the matter.

It appears to me, IMO and from what I have been able to find during my research, that a "myth" may have been created to discredit another "myth"……..That lemons were Jackson's favorite fruit.
I do not believe that lemons were his favorite, but I see no evidence that peaches were his favorite either. I believe that Jackson liked fruit and that if one wishes to toss lemons, peaches, apples, oranges, and pears onto Jackson's grave, it would be appropriate.

If anyone has a source that shows Peaches were Jackson's favorite without a doubt, I would appreciate it being shared and then I will gladly reverse my belief.

I know that in the big picture, peaches, lemons, apples, pears, oranges, or any other fruit being Jacksons' favorite really amounts to a small issue.

My research isn't the end all or be all, it is merely my research and my interpretation of said research.


Respectfully,

William

 

[Northern Light]

At the Wilderness Grant was observed doing both at the same time.

A man who can multi-task: my Hero!

 

[donna]

Thought bump this thread since today, Jan 21 is Jackson's birthday.

 

[AnnaLee]

I knew Jackson liked lemons but would have never thought of leaving one at his grave. Interesting, thanks for the pic.

 

[cash]

Looks like the lemon myth will never die.

 

[Lubliner]

Yes, but don't you think he had a point? One of the reasons it's so absorbing reading about a lot of these men is because they were so interesting. Taylor did no favors to anyone with the lemon myth since it persists 150 years later- although it sounds like he wouldn't have turned one down if offered but the characterization of a man with a few odd kicks in his gallop enhances Jackson's legend rather detracts.

I mean, Lee kept that army together despite an awful lot of very, very strong personalities. We might read about how intractable Jubal Early was or why Grumble Jones earned his name but to be The Man who inspired both of them to play nice, be part of an incredible weapon in Lee's hands, pretty amazing. I don't mean to the Yank commenting on the Confederate army- just get a big kick out of characters- Grumble Jones tragic story turned him into one, and I respect the stuffing out of the man.

So just a question- is it not a ' good' thing for Taylor to have pointed this stuff out in the men around him? I'm not familiar with his writing, maybe that's a bad question- is it considered a little insulting for so many of these legendary men to be considered ' characters'? See, I honestly think it's hugely complimentary, for real. It's tough to maintain one's originality inside an army, they did it anyway, seems to have been part of their success? Maybe in Jackson's case part of some brilliance? ( nobody yell at the ' Yank' getting into this stuff- just have a big soft spot for characters, that's all. Several dozen on both sides. )

I believe characterization adds a certain degree of commonness for the average person to identify with. Similar to terms of endearment, certain activities allowed a more human side to a person considered to be great by many. Jackson was not a very approachable man, being a General, very reticent, and always set 'above the rest'. This idea of Jackson helped dispel an untouchable quality he had gained by reputation. Considering his devotion for the Presbytery, and his penchant for troop participation in Sunday service, I would think it all was a matter of close-knit associates who had to rebuff the 'Tom Fool' image that may have still clung to his heels like mud.