Edged Wpns Help with 2 Swords

Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

EastCoast

Cadet
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
Messages
17
All,

I have two swords here today that I'd like some more info on if possible. The first is a friends sword that was passed down to him. It is clearly authentic, so information on the recipient would be great.

20190801_200113.jpg


20190801_195955.jpg

20190801_195910.jpg

The second is a sword that was found in a trash bin and restored. I have no other info on this one. So, the first question is whether or not it is authentic and if so what year/ branch.

20190801_192721.jpg

20190801_192752.jpg

20190801_195840.jpg

20190801_192726.jpg
 

ucvrelics

Major
Forum Host
Joined
May 7, 2016
Messages
8,072
Location
Alabama
First The Zubco is post CW and the model 1850 F&S sword a transcription of the inscription would be helpful as it is very hard to make out.
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

EastCoast

Cadet
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
Messages
17
Thank you all for the help.

The owner of the first sword mentioned a painting of the colonel exists and he just needs to find it. I will upload a picture of it as soon as he provides it.

Fascinating stuff.

Best,
James
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

smcmanus4757

Cadet
Joined
Aug 18, 2019
Messages
8
All,

I have two swords here today that I'd like some more info on if possible. The first is a friends sword that was passed down to him. It is clearly authentic, so information on the recipient would be great.

View attachment 318837

View attachment 318838
View attachment 318839
The second is a sword that was found in a trash bin and restored. I have no other info on this one. So, the first question is whether or not it is authentic and if so what year/ branch.

View attachment 318840
View attachment 318841
View attachment 318842
View attachment 318843
Hi - I was dong some Google searching and ran across your post. I must admit that I almost fell out of my chair when I saw it. Stephen Thomas of the 18th Mass was my great, great, great grandfather. I have been researching the 18th Mass for approximately 25 years, with two other individuals who had ancestors in it. I wrote a book that was published by Stackpole in 2006 called The Civil War Research Guide, which discussed how do approach the research, how to organize it, sources for information, etc. In the book, I have a mention to Stephen Thomas.

When I was a kid (in the area of 10 to 12 years old), we would visit with a relative who we called Uncle Brad (Bradford Thomas) had quite a collection of items from Stephen Thomas and other ancestors back to the Revolutionary War. By that time, I was already hooked on the Civil War after reading a book about Gettysburg. I was something like 10 - 12 years old when I would see the collection. There was an officer's sword, Colt revolver with holster, buckle and cap box, some bullet molds, a set of dress epaulets in a tin container, and other items that I can only vaguely remember.

I do not remember the inscription on the sword, but it was literally 50 years ago. I have no doubt as to its authenticity.

When Uncle Brad died, the items passed to his son (whose name is escaping me at the moment). In the mid 1990's, I visited the son and his wife (they were probably in their 80's and, as I recall, lived in the Carver, MA area). I was hoping to photograph the sword, Colt, and other items. Although I had a very nice visit with them, they did not have any of the Civil War memorabilia. He thought that he had donated the items to the Middleboro Historical Society. However, he also had a collection of antique brass instruments that had been stolen from his house at some point in time. I contacted the Middleboro Historical Society and they claimed not to know anything about items pertaining to Stephen Thomas, etc.

Somehow, in the late 1990's or maybe very early 2000's, I had some correspondence with the daughter of Uncle Brad's son. She lived in NJ. Her parents had both passed away by that time. I asked her if any of the collection had ever turned up, to which she responded "no."

I have a couple of items from Stephen Thomas: a pocket bible, a GAR medal, and a few pages from a ledger listing food and equipment for Company D of the 18th Mass.

Unfortunately, to my knowledge, there has never been a collection of letter from Stephen Thomas or much else. The photo that someone posted in response to your note comes from the Middleboro Gazette and was published with his obituary. It was through the obituary that my research began on the 18th Mass. This was in the mid-1990's. After a few years, I ran into Donald Thompson and Tom Churchill, who also were researching the regiment and both of them had multiple ancestors in it. Our research continues and, to date, we have CDV's of about 130 men and a collection of transcribed letters, journals, diaries, etc., of about 4,000 pages. We had a website, www.18thMass.com, but that has lapsed. Donald had pulled every military and pension record for every man in the unit and compiled the information into a database. And, I wrote the book on how we did the research. Our goal has been (and is) to write a definitive book on the 18th Mass and, at the moment, our biggest problem is how to edit down the information that we have.

Periodically, the three of us with run Google searches to see if we can find any new information. In addition to your post, yesterday, I found two photos that I had not seen before and two letters that were being offered for sale.

So, to bring things full circle: Stephen Thomas was instrumental in forming what became Co. D of the 18th Mass. He had some military background, which was in short supply at that time. He became the captain of the company. The 18th Mass was assigned to the Fifth Corp, First Division, First Brigade. They fought throughout Virginia. As the most senior officer present at the time, Stephen Thomas led the regiment at the 2nd Battle of Bull Run. 320 men went into battle and they sustained 169 casualties, plus the loss of the state flag, when they charged into Stonewall's men in the railroad cut. They were fought at Fredericksburg (although Stephen Thomas was not with them for the campaign, as he was home in Middleboro doing recruiting). They were present at Antietam, but were not engaged. At Gettysburg, Stephen Thomas was either the regiment's Major or Lt. Col. (very difficult to say which from the records) and they were part of the Fifth Corp that was sent to the Wheatfield to support Sickles. In Sept 1863, he was discharged for disability.
All,

I have two swords here today that I'd like some more info on if possible. The first is a friends sword that was passed down to him. It is clearly authentic, so information on the recipient would be great.

View attachment 318837

View attachment 318838
View attachment 318839
The second is a sword that was found in a trash bin and restored. I have no other info on this one. So, the first question is whether or not it is authentic and if so what year/ branch.

View attachment 318840
View attachment 318841
View attachment 318842
View attachment 318843
All,

I have two swords here today that I'd like some more info on if possible. The first is a friends sword that was passed down to him. It is clearly authentic, so information on the recipient would be great.

View attachment 318837

View attachment 318838
View attachment 318839
The second is a sword that was found in a trash bin and restored. I have no other info on this one. So, the first question is whether or not it is authentic and if so what year/ branch.

View attachment 318840
View attachment 318841
View attachment 318842
View attachment 318843
Hi - I just lost a long message that I was sending about the presentation sword. Stephen Thomas was my great, great, great grandfather. I have done a lot of research on the 18th Mass with two other individuals, Donald Thompson and Thomas Churchill, who also had ancestors in the regiment (I wrote a book that was published in 2006 regarding how to do the research, The Civil War Research Guide). The collection of Stephen Thomas' materials had been in the possession of a distant uncle, Bradford Thomas of Middleboro. When I was a kid (literally 50 years ago), I saw the collection numerous times and it included a sword, Colt revolver with holster, etc., dress epaulets, and may other items. After Uncle Brad died, the collection passed to his son, Myron Thomas. I visited Myron and his wife in the mid 1990's, hoping to photographs the sword, pistol and other items. Unfortunately, he did not have them and he thought they had been donated to the Middleboro Historical Society. On contacting the society, though, they reported that they did not have them.

I have a few items from Stephen Thomas that were given to me by my grandmother: a pocket bible, portable writing desk, and a few pages from a ledger showing food and equipment for Co. D of the 18th Mass.

The 18th Mass was part of the Fifth Corp, 1st Division, 1st Brigade. They fought in the Virginia campaigns. Stephen Thomas formed a company from Middleboro, which became Co. D of the 18th Mass. Thereafter, he rose to Major and then Lt. Col. He was discharged for disability in Sept 1863. As the senior officer present, he led the 18th Mass at the 2nd Battle of Bull Run. They charged across a field into Stonewall's men who were in the railroad cut. The regiment sustained 169 casualties out of 320 men present. They also lost the state flag that was left behind when the regiment retreated. In around 1902, the flag was returned to Massachusetts and it is at the State House in Boston.

I would love to get some pictures of the presentation sword. I do not recall an inscription on the sword that I saw at Uncle Brad's but that was 50 years ago and I would not have appreciated it if I had read it.

The CDV of Stephen Thomas that someone posted is from his obituary in the Middleboro Gazette. I have never seen an actual CDV of him. Unfortunately, I never heard of a collection of letters by him. There are a handful of references to him in the letters, diaries and journals that Donald, Tom and I have collected on the regiment. A very large man and he seemed well liked by the soldiers under him.

After his discharge, he worked a a foundry in Taunton, MA, which made wheels for railroad engines and probably other parts as well.

I do not know the protocol for giving out personal e-mail addresses on this site. If you are interested in exchanging more info, please let me know over this site. As I mentioned, I would love to receive a few photos of the sword and its scabbard.

Steve
 

smcmanus4757

Cadet
Joined
Aug 18, 2019
Messages
8
All,

I have two swords here today that I'd like some more info on if possible. The first is a friends sword that was passed down to him. It is clearly authentic, so information on the recipient would be great.

View attachment 318837

View attachment 318838
View attachment 318839
The second is a sword that was found in a trash bin and restored. I have no other info on this one. So, the first question is whether or not it is authentic and if so what year/ branch.

View attachment 318840
View attachment 318841
View attachment 318842
View attachment 318843
Attached is a picture of Stephen Thomas' marker at the Thomastown cemetery (which is part of Middleboro, MA). Steve

Stephen Thomas Grave inscription.JPG
 

smcmanus4757

Cadet
Joined
Aug 18, 2019
Messages
8
All,

I have two swords here today that I'd like some more info on if possible. The first is a friends sword that was passed down to him. It is clearly authentic, so information on the recipient would be great.

View attachment 318837

View attachment 318838
View attachment 318839
The second is a sword that was found in a trash bin and restored. I have no other info on this one. So, the first question is whether or not it is authentic and if so what year/ branch.

View attachment 318840
View attachment 318841
View attachment 318842
View attachment 318843
Thank you all for the help.

The owner of the first sword mentioned a painting of the colonel exists and he just needs to find it. I will upload a picture of it as soon as he provides it.

Fascinating stuff.

Best,
James
All,

I have two swords here today that I'd like some more info on if possible. The first is a friends sword that was passed down to him. It is clearly authentic, so information on the recipient would be great.

View attachment 318837

View attachment 318838
View attachment 318839
The second is a sword that was found in a trash bin and restored. I have no other info on this one. So, the first question is whether or not it is authentic and if so what year/ branch.

View attachment 318840
View attachment 318841
View attachment 318842
View attachment 318843
Hi - you mentioned that the owner of Stephen Thomas' sword has a portrait of him. My grandmother (Edith MacNeil) had mentioned there being a portrait and she thought it was in the basement of her old colonial house on Main Street in Lakeville. She passed away in the early to mid 1990's and, if the portrait was at her house, I never heard what had become of it. If your friend has it, please do post a picture of it. Also, attached is an article that includes a description of the ceremony during which Stephen Thomas was presented this sword !!! One of my co-researchers, Donald Thompson, was able to dig it up via research on a site containing old newspapers. It is amazing what materials are now available on line for research. I was blown away when he sent me the article. Matching the sword to the history of its presentation is nothing short of incredible. Steve
 

Attachments

Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

James N.

Lt. Colonel
Forum Host
Civil War Photo Contest
Annual Winner
Featured Book Reviewer
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
Messages
11,973
Location
East Texas
All,

I have two swords here today that I'd like some more info on if possible. The first is a friends sword that was passed down to him. It is clearly authentic, so information on the recipient would be great.

View attachment 318837

View attachment 318838
View attachment 318839
The second is a sword that was found in a trash bin and restored. I have no other info on this one. So, the first question is whether or not it is authentic and if so what year/ branch.

View attachment 318840
View attachment 318841
View attachment 318842
View attachment 318843
First The Zubco is post CW and the model 1850 F&S sword a transcription of the inscription would be helpful as it is very hard to make out.
The Zubco is a U.S. Model 1902 Saber For All Officers, meaning that - unlike previous to its adoption when chaos reigned - U.S. Army officers of all ranks up to and including generals of every branch of service were to wear this design, based - as were most of our swords and sabers - on a French prototype. The grip was a wooden dowel covered with a Bakelite or celluloid covering which has disintegrated with age, abuse, and neglect. For the few remaining members of the Army who wear swords as part of ceremonial full-dress uniform like those in the 3rd Infantry or Old Guard who provide sentries in Washington, D.C., this is still regulation.
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

EastCoast

Cadet
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
Messages
17
Hello all! I am just getting back to this thread and am blown away. I will speak to the owner of the sword today and get him up to speed on this. For the possible family relations, please PM me your contact details and I will pass them along.
 

smcmanus4757

Cadet
Joined
Aug 18, 2019
Messages
8
trying to figure out how to PM you on the site. When I tried, I received a message saying that I can only start a conversation with a staff member. My name is Steve McManus. I am originally from Lakeville/Middleboro. My e-mail is [email protected] Look forward to hearing from you or your friend ! Amazing what can turn up through a Google search. Steve
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Top