Eagle Head Swords...

[Glen_C]

And here's what I would call a subspecies of the eagle head sword... the eagle guard sword; a really beautiful spread winged eagle on this guy:
View attachment 113796 View attachment 113797 View attachment 113798

The helmet heads are _not_ a sub species of eagles at all and I believe I outlined their early appearance previously. The helmet heads first appear with French First Empire fashions and developed alongside but not directly influenced by. The spread eagle guards and silver hilts an Ames trait but found from other furbishers.

One previously posted in this thread that has a face like the princess pommels might be better regarded as Athena Pallas pommels vs centurions or knights. There is distiction between all three.

I would again point to other titles of interest to delve into the information further than skin deep.

Eagle pommels evolved from bird and bestial pommels, which in turn may well have been bourne out of kastane brought back from the far east by the early Dutch and English trade routes.

Cheers

GC

 

[Private Watkins]

The helmet heads are _not_ a sub species of eagles at all and I believe I outlined their early appearance previously.

Fair point... the "subspecies" thing was my own non-technical contrivance of an excuse to justify including the sword in this thread... I stand guilty & skin-deep busted!

 

[Glen_C]

Here is an example of a kastane hilt worn during the English Civil War

https://royalarmouries.org/learning...-house-without-flash/colonel-alexander-popham

A century before we see the cuttoe with beasts for pommels

Cheers

GC

 

[Private Watkins]

Here is an example of a kastane hilt worn during the English Civil War

View attachment 113865

https://royalarmouries.org/learning...-house-without-flash/colonel-alexander-popham

A century before we see the cuttoe with beasts for pommels

Cheers

GC

Now that is cool...!

 

[RobertP]

View attachment 76469 Eagle Head sword that my great great great grandfather in 43rd NC brought back from the war. He was a Sargent, so I doubt it was issued to him. Probably a battlefield souvenir.

Very nice. One of the reasons I joined this club 7 years ago was to get help in finding out the original owner of an eagle head sword a great-grandfather, or perhaps a gg-uncle also brought back from the war. It still has the original buckle with about six inches of leather belt, there used to be more but it disappeared after playing with it a lot as a kid. As I had ancestors in both the ANV and western theater in all the major battles so it a daunting task and still remains unsolved. The sword was made by Ames, and is inscribed, "E. M. Reading, from the citizens of Springfield, May 1858." There were a lot of Springfields but suprisingly Reading is a relatively rare name. One poster pointed me to Springfield, Ill., where the fire marshall at that time was E. M. Reading, and after communicating with a local historian there, was also active in Democratic politics. This in the time of Lincoln-Douglas debating. Another poster found an E. M. Reading in Memphis in 1861 or 62 recruiting an infantry company, so perhaps our Reading headed South when the war started. Still would appreciate help if anyone has other ideas as to origin.

 

[AndyHall]

A little tangential, but the U.S. Navy regulations of 1841 called for an eagle-pommel officer's sword, as well:

There is an example of one (although it's damaged) on display at the Rosenberg Library here in Galveston, that belonged to Norman Hurd (1785-1870), who served as a Purser in the Texas Navy from 1835 to 1843. Although he was not a line officer -- he was fifty years old when he first took up his warrant as purser -- he was the closest thing that service had to a career officer. It was made by Joseph Storrs of Cheapside, London. (There is a better example here, third from top.) How and when Hurd came to have this weapon is not known (at least by me), but I think it's quite possible he had it with him aboard Austin at the Battle of Campeche in 1843. That is the naval action engraved on the cylinder of the 1851 Colt Navy revolver.

 

[Glen_C]

The 1841 naval eagles are quite elegant, with some variation in pommel size and blades. The twin folding kidney shaped guards and acorns galore mark them all as siblings. Scaled bone or ivory grips and most often pipe back blades. There have been some very nice examples on Ebay this past year. Here is one listed now

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338579798&icep_item=262679617635

There is a non-regulation pattern with a similarly large pommel but with a gothic hilts a bit like the British rifle company swords

Perhaps one of the more obscure naval eagle pommel is a much older Bolton type that is much like the British 1803 infantry hilts.

The standard US 1841 pattern though one of the finest eagle out there as far as collecting goes.

Cheers

GC

 

[Glen_C]

Very nice. One of the reasons I joined this club 7 years ago was to get help in finding out the original owner of an eagle head sword a great-grandfather, or perhaps a gg-uncle also brought back from the war. It still has the original buckle with about six inches of leather belt, there used to be more but it disappeared after playing with it a lot as a kid. As I had ancestors in both the ANV and western theater in all the major battles so it a daunting task and still remains unsolved. The sword was made by Ames, and is inscribed, "E. M. Reading, from the citizens of Springfield, May 1858." There were a lot of Springfields but suprisingly Reading is a relatively rare name. One poster pointed me to Springfield, Ill., where the fire marshall at that time was E. M. Reading, and after communicating with a local historian there, was also active in Democratic politics. This in the time of Lincoln-Douglas debating. Another poster found an E. M. Reading in Memphis in 1861 or 62 recruiting an infantry company, so perhaps our Reading headed South when the war started. Still would appreciate help if anyone has other ideas as to origin.
View attachment 113869

A problem in placing the provenance is that until the ACW began, an 1858 insribed Ames made sword could have been found virtually anywhere and the search really begins with the name but also the exact point at which it entered your family.

Signing up for newspaper articles may yield a note of the presentation. There are some Ames records of presentation swords but iirc, the list in the Hamilton book on Ames is limited to Mexican War officer presentations. As you note, there are a lot of Springfields. Pounding the pavement for a veteran of the ACW for Reading may or may not be useful. A souvenir of the war not necessarily a battlefield pick up.

Post as large a picture as you can.

Cheers

GC

 

[Richard E. Schenk]

I missed this photo when it was first posted:

This officer's sword looks very much like my "Le Page"/"Standish Berry"-style sword which predates the CW by a good half century. It would be interesting to know for sure whether it was a photographer's prop or an heirloom sword pressed into service by a new generation. It does appear he is wearing a sword belt, but the sword does not seem to be suspended from it.

 

[Glen_C]

It's a mirror image, as tintypes are, and there are several posed aspects we are seeing. We can't see straps on the scabbard but who knows. Both sash and revolver have been swapped left for right as well I can't tell if the belt is on upside down.

Cheers

GC

 

[RobertP]

A problem in placing the provenance is that until the ACW began, an 1858 insribed Ames made sword could have been found virtually anywhere and the search really begins with the name but also the exact point at which it entered your family.

Signing up for newspaper articles may yield a note of the presentation. There are some Ames records of presentation swords but iirc, the list in the Hamilton book on Ames is limited to Mexican War officer presentations. As you note, there are a lot of Springfields. Pounding the pavement for a veteran of the ACW for Reading may or may not be useful. A souvenir of the war not necessarily a battlefield pick up.

Post as large a picture as you can.

Cheers

GC

Here you go, also should add that the description says Capt. E M Reading. Militia?

The sword has been in family possession since end of CW.

 

[Private Watkins]

Here you go, also should add that the description says Capt. E M Reading. Militia?View attachment 113915
View attachment 113917
View attachment 113919
View attachment 113916
The sword has been in family possession since end of CW.

She's a beauty...

 

[lelliott19]

This officer's sword looks very much like my "Le Page"/"Standish Berry"-style sword which predates the CW by a good half century. It would be interesting to know for sure whether it was a photographer's prop or an heirloom sword pressed into service by a new generation. It does appear he is wearing a sword belt, but the sword does not seem to be suspended from it.View attachment 113895

Perhaps I can shed some light on the sword. Certainly not because I am knowledgeable about swords, but simply because I am researching the regiment in which this gentleman served, know his descendants, and am pretty good at using the search functions for period newspapers. Obviously, I can't say with 100% certainty that this is the sword described below, but IMHO, the Captain would have been pretty proud to have the sword and would likely have wanted his picture taken with it.

Presentation of a Sword to the Oconee Volunteers
Gen C. F. Hardy presented Capt. Thompson of the Oconee Volunteers [became Co. G of the 16th GA] of Jackson county, with the sword worn by his father in the service of the country during the late war with England. The following were his remarks on the occasion:

Captain, Officers and Privates: Gentlemen: I take great pleasure in having the honor of appearing before you for the purpose of delivering to your Captain's care, this sword of my father's, which has been in the earlier age of our country, wielded by him for our liberties and the freedom of our common country.

Reposing a like faith in the valor and fidelity of your captain and yourselves, I shall commit this sword to your care, for the purpose of driving back the invaders of our soil – those who without cause are attempting to subjugate us and deprive us of our liberties. I know of no person who is more worthy, more able or more willing to wield this sword to the perpetuation of those liberties which it once assisted to achieve, and to the honor of him who first wielded it, and to the honor and glory of his country's cause than your captain.

Capt. Thompson, thus believing, I commit this sword to your charge, that should you come in close contact with the foe, the invaders of our soil, you will not permit it to return bloodless to its scabbard; thereby showing to our foes that come weal or come woe, you are determined, by the assistance of your God and the God of our fathers, to sustain that liberty so dearly won by them, and to have our constitutional rights or die in the struggle for them.

Captain, Officers and Soldiers: In parting with you, I commit you to the care and keeping of that God who is so able to take care of you, though bullets may fly thick around you. May His arm uphold you, and His Almighty arm sustain, shield and strengthen you, and may He preserve you all and return you safe to the embraces of your families and friends. [end of article] Southern Watchman (Athens, Georgia), Jul. 31, 1861, page 3.
​

The family does not have the sword. Thompson was severely wounded and captured at Crampton's Gap Sept 14, 1862. He was furloughed and disabled from further service. The family does not know if he had the sword when he returned home and gave it back the Hardy family OR if it was retained when he was released.

 

[Glen_C]

Thanks for the update.

 

[Richard E. Schenk]

Highly doubtful this is anything other than a photographer's prop. For one thing, there's no frog or other means of suspension on his belt; besides, these were officers' swords and this is an enlisted private of artillery. Besides, since these had by then long been out of regulation they were exactly the sort of prop easily available to an enterprising photographer.

Also note he is wearing the sword on the wrong side - the sewn seam on the reverse side of the scabbard should be on the side facing the body, not facing the observer/camera.

 

[Richard E. Schenk]

We have to be careful with attributions in studio photographs, for instance those with the subject just holding the sword. In such cases, the sword just used as a prop.

I have many more images than swords in my collection but eagle pommel swords a bit of a passion of mine. Here are some folders I am forever working on and uploaded for the public some months ago. Some are out of place and others not eagles at all. Anyway
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B9AOFMA8y3ODNllwS21ja1FuVmM&usp=sharing

My growing collection, I just added another spadroon
View attachment 75036

Study the portraits of individuals with the swords to determine if they are wearing a sword belt and the scabbard is attached with straps, stuff like that.

View attachment 75038
View attachment 75039
View attachment 75040

The above a much earlier Ketland type eagle that predates the ACW by some decades.

My recent purchase, an 1840ish unmarked Ames sword.

View attachment 75041
View attachment 75042

So yes, I like the eagles

Cheers

GC

Here is a photo of a sword very similar to the one shown in the photo. It is a Ketland-style eagle pommel saber made c.1805, probably in Birmingham, England for the American market. The blade is appears essentially the same as used in the UK p1803 light infantry officer sword. It is 27.5" long and 1.5 wide at the ricasso and has delicately etched blue and gold decoration.

 

[Richard E. Schenk]

One more soldier with an Eagle Head... (prop or not)...
View attachment 75084

He appears to be carrying what is commonly called Le Page-style eagle head. These are usually thought of as French-made, but in fact most, if not all, were produced in Solingen, many by the firm of Kirschbaum and Simmelbusch, mainly during the period the town was under French control, but some are apparently later. The one in the photo is a bit unusual in that it has a leather scabbard - most Le Pages had brass scabbards. Here is a K&S-made example from c.1807:

 

[James N.]

Also note he is wearing the sword on the wrong side - the sewn seam on the reverse side of the scabbard should be on the side facing the body, not facing the observer/camera.

Not exactly - this ambrotype is a hard image and in those (including tintypes and daguerreotypes as well) the image is reversed. In cases like this it was common for subjects to hold items in the "wrong" hand and even wear sashes, belts, etc. on the wrong side in order to make it appear correctly. In addition I'll comment that in that particular photo, the subject is an enlisted artilleryman who wouldn't be carrying a sword of that style or pattern in the first place.

 

[Western Reserve Volunteer]

Glen C.; a question from a fellow sword junkie, would you consider the blade on the Model 1819 NCO sword a spadroon? Or more sabre like? Would you say that the straight bladed Eagle head swords are also spadroons?

From what I understand the spadroon's blade is more of a thrusting blade that can also cut, more descended from raiper, whereas the M1819 had more of a blade descended from the earlier basket hilt broadsword types it was replacing, paired with a D guard hilt. So more a cutting blade that can also thrust (the straight design would help make thrusts easier as compared with the very sharply curved sabres of the era... though I must admit a fondness of the clipped point on North sabres, those look pretty effective for stabbing vs a hatchet tip.). Since you have the best preserved example I ever seen, I was hoping you could shed some light on the subject?

 

[Glen_C]

Glen C.; a question from a fellow sword junkie, would you consider the blade on the Model 1819 NCO sword a spadroon? Or more sabre like? Would you say that the straight bladed Eagle head swords are also spadroons?

From what I understand the spadroon's blade is more of a thrusting blade that can also cut, more descended from raiper, whereas the M1819 had more of a blade descended from the earlier basket hilt broadsword types it was replacing, paired with a D guard hilt. So more a cutting blade that can also thrust (the straight design would help make thrusts easier as compared with the very sharply curved sabres of the era... though I must admit a fondness of the clipped point on North sabres, those look pretty effective for stabbing vs a hatchet tip.). Since you have the best preserved example I ever seen, I was hoping you could shed some light on the subject?

The straight 1818 Starr model was contracted for both infantry and artillery nco wear and personally would regard it as a spadroon, or short backsword. Sabres are curved blades but I can see where you might draw the parallel in it being a better cutter/shearer. All the straight eagles in that rack have spadroon blades except two that are more epee like, where the blade fuller ends in the last third and the unfullered section sharp on both sides. I am not sure which example you see as clipped, or indeed as hatchet, as a hatchet tipped sabre blade to me might be better met in a different definition (ie the first British p1796 sabre blades that have a very steeply blunt looking point, ill suited for thrusting).

I have better individual pictures of each shown, so maybe indicate our left or right and so many from the top. If it was the Starr 1818 sabre you are regarding, yes, those are clip point blades and perhaps for better ease of thrusting.

In general, I lump most US straight jobs into into four general categories, even though a full length fullered straight blade with one edge fall into the backsword category as well.

The skinny bladed Widmann and my straight bladed Osborn type have more epee like blade forms.

Cheers
GC