Eagle Head Swords...

[tubs]

militia

I see traces of silver wash/plate, which would be infantry vs artillery

A galvanic vs electro silvering one often sees as darkness in crevices


Thanks for posting the pictures. It almost seems more like you are composing ad copy to sell the item.

I never said Helvig was French. I did say the sword you presented was probably produced in Germany. I could write more for you but I'd be repeating myself. Having shared a large gallery with you for German Production, and mentioned it again, I'll mention it a third time in two days. Likely German produced. The Alsace area is a grey market between the two countries.

There were official federal models. There were thousands of variety in militia swords. Federal sword regulations were occurring just about every decade. Stuff like that is in the books.

I won and finally got this sword. Going over this stuff again and see you say it is probably produced in Germany and in your link, you sent Helvig is listed under German produced. Everywhere else on the net researching this sword it comes up Helvig was in France making swords. Wondering if you'd care to elaborate on this?

 

[66Jayhawk]

Helvig was in Alsace, and the border changed frequently...French to German to French to...

 

[tubs]

Helvig was in Alsace, and the border changed frequently...French to German to French to...

My research says Helvig produced swords in Alsace from about 1820 through 1840, during this time Alsace was part of France. So shouldn't any swords he exported to the US then be French Produced?

 

[66Jayhawk]

My research says Helvig produced swords in Alsace from about 1820 through 1840, during this time Alsace was part of France. So shouldn't any swords he exported to the US then be French Produced?

I didn't know the exact years he was there, but based on that, yes, it would be French. It's an interesting area...they were Germanic speaking and culturally Germanic, though. Good food...ate at a wonderful Alsatian restaurant in Dijon last September.

 

[tubs]

I didn't know the exact years he was there, but based on that, yes, it would be French. It's an interesting area...they were Germanic speaking and culturally Germanic, though. Good food...ate at a wonderful Alsatian restaurant in Dijon last September.

Well I'm no Eagle Head Sword expert by any means but when i get a sword I like to research it and try to find out what i really got. What I'm going with right now is that it was made in France sometime between 1820-1840 by a bunch of Germans that moved to France, and on machines that were probably bought by France from Germany.

 

[Glen_C]

If it does not have the SHF, it is much like all the other Solingen makers using the same parts (having pointing out a lot of them share parts). You want to be specific, fine. I said a lot of stuff was shared and you may never know, for sure.

 

[tubs]

If it does not have the SHF, it is much like all the other Solingen makers using the same parts (having pointing out a lot of them share parts). You want to be specific, fine. I said a lot of stuff was shared and you may never know, for sure.

No, I don't see SHF under the langlet, but there might be what looks like a W scratched in the gold guilding there. Don't know if that means anything?

 

[Glen_C]

A W means the blade itself was done by Weyersburg. In your collecting life especially the ACW period, Weyersburg blades were produced and exported by the barrel. Fittings made by the bushel and ferrules rolled out by the mile; except that some are more singular, as I have previously mentioned. Without any other markings, I once again would regard it as a generic German produced item. That Helvig, Berger and others outside of the Solingen circuit use the parts, does not mean the parts are not German. The link of my clipboard, shared with you, will hopefully lead to study time spent. Weyersburg is mentioned a few times in Peterson (1954) and where one will see a gilt W on the blade base, for Weyersburg. To compound the issue further, you have Widmann using Weyersburg blades. Not all W blades have any connection to Widmann. A more common mark for the family is the crowned king, a mark they bought from the Wundes family in the 18th century.

Parts are parts.

Cheers
GC

 

[tubs]

A W means the blade itself was done by Weyersburg. In your collecting life especially the ACW period, Weyersburg blades were produced and exported by the barrel. Fittings made by the bushel and ferrules rolled out by the mile; except that some are more singular, as I have previously mentioned. Without any other markings, I once again would regard it as a generic German produced item. That Helvig, Berger and others outside of the Solingen circuit use the parts, does not mean the parts are not German. The link of my clipboard, shared with you, will hopefully lead to study time spent. Weyersburg is mentioned a few times in Peterson (1954) and where one will see a gilt W on the blade base, for Weyersburg. To compound the issue further, you have Widmann using Weyersburg blades. Not all W blades have any connection to Widmann. A more common mark for the family is the crowned king, a mark they bought from the Wundes family in the 18th century.

Parts are parts.

Cheers
GC

I just read on Google that the W may just mean "Warranted" and it suggests the maker might be S&K from Solingen. I have no idea just reading this ****. You ever heard of this?

 

[Glen_C]

I just read on Google that the W may just mean "Warranted" and it suggests the maker might be S&K from Solingen. I have no idea just reading this ****. You ever heard of this?

Warranted is always spelled out. Used on both sides of the channel.

 

[tubs]

Warranted is always spelled out. Used on both sides of the channel.

Ok, can I call it a "Generic German produced copy of a US Eagle Head Helvig sword"? Just because, besides your clipboard, the only time a pic of this sword comes up on the net is when I put in the Medusa langlets, and it says Helvig Sword.

 

[R. Porter]

Ok, can I call it a "Generic German produced copy of a US Eagle Head Helvig sword"? Just because, besides your clipboard, the only time a pic of this sword comes up on the net is when I put in the Medusa langlets, and it says Helvig Sword.

But as noted earlier in the thread, there is more than one style of Medusa langet. I wouldn't attribute all styles of Medusa langet to the same maker.

 

[Glen_C]

Ok, can I call it a "Generic German produced copy of a US Eagle Head Helvig sword"? Just because, besides your clipboard, the only time a pic of this sword comes up on the net is when I put in the Medusa langlets, and it says Helvig Sword.

You are entirely free to call it anything you like.

 

[Glen_C]

But as noted earlier in the thread, there is more than one style of Medusa langet. I wouldn't attribute all styles of Medusa langet to the same maker.

parts were parts castings morphed There are more exceptions and examples of combinations of the five parts of the swords than any other single genre. Eagles ranging from brooch pin eagle pommels to the military association swords that still emulated the generic German form.

If someone is beginning a collection, start buying associated books. Doing internet searches is fine but don't use a search result in discussion without bothering to sharing the source and using it as some sort of truth. I'm not sure I can repeat myself too many more times. If someone is adding 2+3 and getting 16, well, good luck with that.

I could show this langet design in a few books, on swords from a few countries, with a few different hilts. I probably will not be able to be much more help on the matter.

 

[tubs]

parts were parts castings morphed There are more exceptions and examples of combinations of the five parts of the swords than any other single genre. Eagles ranging from brooch pin eagle pommels to the military association swords that still emulated the generic German form.
View attachment 577041 View attachment 577040

If someone is beginning a collection, start buying associated books. Doing internet searches is fine but don't use a search result in discussion without bothering to sharing the source and using it as some sort of truth. I'm not sure I can repeat myself too many more times. If someone is adding 2+3 and getting 16, well, good luck with that.

I could show this langet design in a few books, on swords from a few countries, with a few different hilts. I probably will not be able to be much more help on the matter.

I would like to call it what it actually is. My collection is not just US Eagle Head Swords, it's all swords, knifes, daggers, bayonets, helmets, guns, stuff that I call military hardware from all around the world. Buying books on the items in my collection costing sometimes as much as the item itself and would take up more room than my collection is not my thing. The last book I bought was for *EDITED*<German> daggers from a well-known dealer that everyone said it's a must have for collectors, so I bought for $90. When I received it I was like what the hell, it was nothing more than a wedding album of German officers all dressed up with daggers hanging off their sides standing next to their brides. No where in the book was there any descriptions or comparisons off daggers. So that's how I feel about books. Anyways, sorry bout that, back to my sword. Would "Early 19th century, likely European produced, US Eagle Head Calvary Officers Sword" be an accurate description? I really do appreciate your guys time and knowledge on this topic. Thanks.
.

 

[R. Porter]

Wow, I'm not going to begin to tell what the sword books I've bought have cost me! I'm sure having photographic proof that various German daggers actually existed and are not fantasy pieces can be useful but if you depend on the opinions of others I can see where you might feel the cost of a reference source might be unnecessary.

 

[tubs]

Wow, I'm not going to begin to tell what the sword books I've bought have cost me! I'm sure having photographic proof that various German daggers actually existed and are not fantasy pieces can be useful but if you depend on the opinions of others I can see where you might feel the cost of a reference source might be unnecessary.

All I'm looking for is an accurate description of this sword. If you can give me one I would appreciate. What I do is search the internet, check available books, and talk to the most people with knowledge as possible, and put it all together and sort out the stuff that don't make any sense. Usually this works for me but not with this sword. I understand parts is parts and that's how some shops assembled swords, but I got parts from at least 3 different countries and all of them exported swords to the US. And then there's the ferrule that seems like nobody seen before, would those be Acacia leaves on there? If so, who used those? Just calling it an US Eagle Head Sword seem a little too narrow to me. I don't know maybe I'm just expecting too much here. Thanks for putting up with me.

 

[Glen_C]

I don't know maybe I'm just expecting too much here.

Imo, you are.

Its a sad truth, especially in how you approached it and the answers you have come up with.

I do believe my first thoughts regarding this sword was

"Welcome to the wacky world of eagles"

I've only got 20 years of reading and watching them. There are plenty of others that have better collections and more arcane information than I'll ever know. I appreciate being tagged into the discussion of this sword and as with a zillion questions I've asked of others, I have confirmed my studies more from appreciating the books than questioning my own multiplication.

You want some form of higher justification, beyond what I have pointed out as obvious. I can't give it to you.

I want 10% of the resale.

 

[tubs]

All I'm looking for is an accurate description of this sword. If you can give me one I would appreciate. What I do is search the internet, check available books, and talk to the most people with knowledge as possible, and put it all together and sort out the stuff that don't make any sense. Usually this works for me but not with this sword. I understand parts is parts and that's how some shops assembled swords, but I got parts from at least 3 different countries and all of them exported swords to the US. And then there's the ferrule that seems like nobody seen before, would those be Acacia leaves on there? If so, who used those? Just calling it an US Eagle Head Sword seem a little too narrow to me. I don't know maybe I'm just expecting too much here. Thanks for putting up with me.

Or maybe Acanthus leaves on the ferrule?

Imo, you are.

Its a sad truth, especially in how you approached it and the answers you have come up with.

I do believe my first thoughts regarding this sword was

"Welcome to the wacky world of eagles"

I've only got 20 years of reading and watching them. There are plenty of others that have better collections and more arcane information than I'll ever know. I appreciate being tagged into the discussion of this sword and as with a zillion questions I've asked of others, I have confirmed my studies more from appreciating the books than questioning my own multiplication.

You want some form of higher justification, beyond what I have pointed out as obvious. I can't give it to you.

I want 10% of the resale.

Well, I want to thank you for your input here really do appreciate it! It's not for sale I'm keeping it. It's just a generic German produced sword from what I'm finding out but, with that ferrule on it, it might be one of a kind! lol!

 

[iron bender]

I've got an eagle head. I literally know nothing about it. Always assumed it was 30's-40's era. Not sure if the brass scabbard is original to it. The blade etching kinda reminds of the Ames 33 blade