Eagle Head Swords...

[Glen_C]

Brass scabbards hung around through the '40s. I have more questions than answers on these crested backpiece eagles. I was just revisiting a couple of folders and your's is another I've not seen an exact match of components. The grip certainly not out of place in time.

I chase the examples Mowbray shows as possibly Widmann and what I'm discovering is whole swords, with a refit incorporating Widmann's grape and leaf ferrule material, that he seems to have lost the last of and started to use others. Don Furr's book, Mowbray and my searches finally clicked one day. The rest of the hilt was used on other Widmann swords. That does not make them all Widmann.

Here's one Widmann marked German production with the trademark Widmann ferrule, from Furr's sales

Here one seen in Furr's book and I've three recent sales in files (over two decades)

I date my crested backpiece as earlier (not Widmann)

You can find more of these in my designated folder but they show up elsewhere on my clipboard posted earlier. Here are the crested back piece family

Crested_backpiece - Google Drive

drive.google.com

Cheers
GC

A P.S.

Never dismiss the fallacy of the undistributed middle...

Fallacy of (the) Undistributed Middle - Logically Fallacious

A formal fallacy in a categorical syllogism where the middle term, or the term that does not appear in the conclusion, is not distributed to the other two terms.

www.logicallyfallacious.com

I don't know that a better metaphor might be to say all katana look alike.

 

[R. Porter]

I came across an image of an eagle head fraternal sword while doing some research for a sword in a different thread and thought I would post it here because it might make things more messy. It appears to have a Medusa head langet and is dated to about 1830. I think the only thing that makes it a fraternal sword and not a purely military sword is the etching on the blade.

 

[Glen_C]

I came across an image of an eagle head fraternal sword while doing some research for a sword in a different thread and thought I would post it here because it might make things more messy. It appears to have a Medusa head langet and is dated to about 1830. I think the only thing that makes it a fraternal sword and not a purely military sword is the etching on the blade.

View attachment 578797View attachment 578798

A testament to the longevity of the form. Note the much later etch properties. While perusing the book, note other examples, like the b&g militia helmet pommel shortie, early in that book.

You'll see something like this, as well.

Here are two identical counterguards 100 years apart (to me, interesting but like "so what" )

It is always interesting to see the random pattern from the past applied to fraternity.

I have probably introduced the fallacy of the undistributed middle elsewhere in this thread

Fallacy of (the) Undistributed Middle - Logically Fallacious

A formal fallacy in a categorical syllogism where the middle term, or the term that does not appear in the conclusion, is not distributed to the other two terms.

www.logicallyfallacious.com

Just because the 1796 shown above clearly has a label dating to 1871 and a fraternal group, does not make it a sword made in 1871, or specifically fraternal...

Then there are purposefully made fraternal swords, of a more weapon grade.

Then spotting true siblings of older swords marked to Freemasons, or others. I'd have to introduce 24 images to truly showcase a true pair of twins but they are not eagles and likely not American Civil War.

Great spotting that one, in a great book. I'll put another post here with that pair and another oddity explained.

Cheers
GC

 

[Glen_C]

Twinsies ...and a Neato! The system is balky, I'll try later but here's a preview, or maybe a worthy fraternal sword thread.

 

[tubs]

Oh no, not eagle heads and medusa langets again! lol!!!! I find this stuff just amazing!

 

[Glen_C]

Oh no, not eagle heads and medusa langets again! lol!!!! I find this stuff just amazing!

Slowly I turned,
step by step...
inch by inch...

 

[Glen_C]

For some reason, the system will not let me flood images, or I have reached a limit.

Here is the other named saber, identical forms and Masonic b&g. I may have to switch to imgur but that hurts Forums when piccies hosts shut you down.

 

[tubs]

View attachment 578887

For some reason, the system will not let me flood images, or I have reached a limit.

Here is the other named saber, identical forms and Masonic b&g. I may have to switch to imgur but that hurts Forums when piccies hosts shut you down.

Did you see my post of 1860 pattern army sword from a couple of days ago? would love to hear any comments you have on that one.