What is this? CSA Import --- Belgium?

DixieRifles

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My sister's sister-in-law has this Confederate rifle that was passed down through another family before being sold to her father. The previous owner's family story was that it was used in the Battle of Shiloh.

Rifle is stamped with "CSA" and "1854" and a script text that I think is Belgian.
Barrel is 43 inches(this may be from the tip of the tang and not the breech); overall length of rifle is 58 inches.

These photos were texted to me. They aren't the way I would take them but it will have to do for now. I'm still trying to match the detail shot of markings with its location on the stock. I can always request more if you want to look for a marking at a certain location.
I know very little about imported rifles. I have a lot of questions but here are the basic ones.

Q: What is it?
Q: When would this have been imported?
Q: Is it possible it was present at Shiloh?

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ucvrelics

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My sister's sister-in-law has this Confederate rifle that was passed down through another family before being sold to her father. The previous owner's family story was that it was used in the Battle of Shiloh.

Rifle is stamped with "CSA" and "1854" and a script text that I think is Belgian.
Barrel is 43 inches(this may be from the tip of the tang and not the breech); overall length of rifle is 58 inches.

These photos were texted to me. They aren't the way I would take them but it will have to do for now. I'm still trying to match the detail shot of markings with its location on the stock. I can always request more if you want to look for a marking at a certain location.
I know very little about imported rifles. I have a lot of questions but here are the basic ones.

Q: What is it?
Q: When would this have been imported?
Q: Is it possible it was present at Shiloh?

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Interesting piece and I have to agree the CSA is spurious
 

Ranchero50

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Regardless, it's interesting and should give you pleasure finding out what you can about it. Just knowing where it was made helps a lot. Now find where it was used, by who and when is usually negatively reinforced (wasn't here, wasn't then, etc). Good luck and report what you find.
 

DixieRifles

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As fake as a $3 bill.
I have checked all my books which are general knowledge and some on museum collections and I can't find any French rifle at all.
Do you know the caliber of this rifle? I would ask the owner to measure it but she probably can't.

Here is the back story.
The lady is about 64 years old. Her Dad traded a shotgun for it about 1960 when she was 4 years old. The previous owner said it had passed through their family and was used at Shiloh. The rifle came with powder, caps and balls but they lost the caps.

It makes for a good story :wink: but too bad they couldn't have passed along a name of a soldier or a regiment.
 

DixieRifles

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European Arms in the Civil War, by Schwalm and Hofman, being my source indicates at least 80,000 of these were purchased in the Nawth. Fortunately none, except possible captures or pick-ups, made it to the South.
Thanks. That is AN answer that I was looking for.

My scenario: Some rich plantation owner in Louisiana raised a regiment in the early days of the War and outfitted them with rifles he obtained from one of his Frenchie trading partners. This Louisiana regiment was sent up to fight at Shiloh.

But it smells really fishy when you ask: Who and Why was it stamped "CSA"? Just to rip off some sucker.
 

DixieRifles

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I would still like to know for my own interest --- What caliber is it?

There are other questions that makes me wonder if this rifle could have been issued to a Union regiment that ended up at the Battle of Shiloh. Or maybe a regiment armed with this type rifle was garrisoned at Corinth area the years after 1862?

Q: When were these French Model 1854 Rifles purchased? What year?
Q: Where were they issued? Maybe only issued to regiments garrisoned in Northern states?
Q: Were any issued to units that moved into Tennessee in 1863 -1865?
 

Lanyard Puller

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Your scenario above has a lot of truth to it. The musket in question was 17.6mm or about .70 caliber

French/Creole as well as other New Orleans merchants imported quantities of various weapons before the fall of New Orleans. If any of the muskets in this discussion were thus sold through them, they would certainly have marked it with their trademark.

Such weapons marked by "Hyde & Goodrich, Agents for the US South", "D. Kernaghan &Co.", "T. Bailey", etc are highly prized CS weapons {mostly revolvers} now.
 

johan_steele

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I would still like to know for my own interest --- What caliber is it?

There are other questions that makes me wonder if this rifle could have been issued to a Union regiment that ended up at the Battle of Shiloh. Or maybe a regiment armed with this type rifle was garrisoned at Corinth area the years after 1862?

Q: When were these French Model 1854 Rifles purchased? What year?
Q: Where were they issued? Maybe only issued to regiments garrisoned in Northern states?
Q: Were any issued to units that moved into Tennessee in 1863 -1865?
These were generally purchased early war. Most went North, yes there were some French .71 rifle muskets at Shiloh. Yes quite a few went to units that served in Tennessee from 63-65.
 

DixieRifles

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These were generally purchased early war. Most went North, yes there were some French .71 rifle muskets at Shiloh. Yes quite a few went to units that served in Tennessee from 63-65.
Thanks.
I think that answers my questions---and the owner's, too.

But probably in 1960 you could get a really good price for a French rifle if it was marked "CSA".
 
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