Custer George Armstrong Custer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tmh10]

Thanks for the heads up. I'll dial back, and hope I don't get the 3rd degree again. I was starting to feel like Joe Friday was grilling for littering or something..

Welcome to the club.

 

[damYankee]

Welcome to the club.

I am a veteran of the now defunct THC Civil War boards and I have the scars to prove it!

 

[ole]

Thanks for the heads up. I'll dial back, and hope I don't get the 3rd degree again. I was starting to feel like Joe Friday was grilling for littering or something..

Don't sweat the small stuff. Hint: It's all small stuff and not worth spoiling dinner over.

 

[ole]

Thanks for the heads up. I'll dial back, and hope I don't get the 3rd degree again. I was starting to feel like Joe Friday was grilling for littering or something..

Don't sweat the small stuff. Hint: It's all small stuff and not worth spoiling dinner over.

 

[TDMD]

I am a veteran of the now defunct THC Civil War boards and I have the scars to prove it!

You, too? It was neo-Con heaven over there.

 

[BillO]

Why did he not know?

I will defend the lady, it's what we do. This is a valid question, Custer was supposdly a cavalry commander and should have some small inkling of the importance of timely intel on the enemies location and strength. Now in his defense he was trained by Grant and Sheridan who themselves didn't seem to know or care. I couldn't help myself.

 

[K Hale]

You're joking, right. He didn't read his e-mail that morning?

No, I'm not joking. Why was no scouting or recon done? Isn't that what cavalry does, find the enemy and determine his strength? I'd like to know why this didn't happen. Perhaps there's a reasonable explanation, but we won't get there via comments like the above.

 

[K Hale]

Can you haul it back, damYankee? Ms. Hale has been annoying everyone since God was a pup. Get used to it.

I've heard things through the grapevine, Ole, and you will not drive me off this forum, no matter what tack you decide to try this time. If I've violated a rule by asking questions or pointing out facts, let me know. Otherwise this is pointless talk.

 

[cash]

No, I'm not joking. Why was no scouting or recon done? Isn't that what cavalry does, find the enemy and determine his strength? I'd like to know why this didn't happen. Perhaps there's a reasonable explanation, but we won't get there via comments like the above.

Perhaps a separate thread on the Little Big Horn would be appropriate? There is a great deal about that battle that has not been said which would clear up a lot of confusion, but it does not deal with Custer in the Civil War.

 

[cash]

Can you haul it back, damYankee? Ms. Hale has been annoying everyone since God was a pup. Get used to it.

Well, speaking for myself, I find her "annoying" in the best possible way. She asks very pertinent questions and forces you to have your act together. If I'm lazy in my posting and she takes me to task for it, I can blame only myself, and I consider she's done me a favor by pointing out the flaws.

 

[rickvox79]

He didn't want them slowing down the column. He was apparently convinced that the encampment would move on before he could get there.

I believe Ole is correct here. The problem that Custer had was actually FINDING the Sioux and company. They would often scatter and were constantly on the move, making them extremely hard to track or catch up too. Custer has been cast, especially at the time, as the premier Indian fighter but really the only major battle he fought was at the Battle of Washita River. He attacked during the dead of winter which caught the village by surprise. What he didn't realize, like he would do later at The Little Bighorn, was that it was just a satellite village with many larger ones nearby.

He nearly had a Little Bighorn disaster before the actual one with that fight. He took hostages and got out of their in time when he realized what he was truly up against. I don't think Custer truly knew the size of the villages camped on the Little Bighorn until he was close enough to see it, the rolling plains could make it more difficult to see the full extent of the village until they were right up on it. My opinion is that when Custer finally saw the enormity of the village his pride would not allow him to back down. It didn't help that he was unaware of Gen. Crook almost being wiped out at the Battle of the Rosebud just a week before. Like I mentioned above it was hard to actually find them so when he finally did catch them he wasn't about to run especially when he felt that one more battle could finish the job with this band of "rebel" Sioux and Cheyenne tribes.

His plan was to send Major Reno and his 3 companies to attack from the south first and then he would ride in with his group and take hostages like Washita. In my opinion Custer made a mistake in attacking but he didn't exactly have help from Reno and Benteen. Reno held up his attack instead of riding straight into the village. Would the Sioux have scattered if Reno would have charged in headlong instead of stopping, followed by Custer and his companies plowing in from the other side in coordination? It's hard to say, but many Sioux have said they were somewhat caught off guard at first but when Reno stopped his charge it gave them time to regroup and concentrate their attack on him. Then, of course, Benteen failed to ride to Custer's aid when Custer requested he bring up his men.

Sorry, didn't mean to go into the whole LBH battle considering we're talking about Custer's Civil War record. But it has always been an interesting topic for me. I've read 3 books on Custer but they mostly dealt with LBH and the events leading up to it, and not necessarily his Civil War record. There are people who praise him as a commander and others who cannot stand him. I think it falls somewhere in between. There are men that served under him that loved him and others that hated him. He was reckless but also didn't lack courage and was out in front with his men. He believed in "Custer's Luck", as he called it, from his years of surviving the Civil War and probably felt a bit invincible to some degree. I think his Civil War record was solid though, he made some mistakes but I believe he was definitely one of the better Union Cavalry commanders during the war.

 

[matthew mckeon]

Guys,
We're talking about two different fights here. Could the Little Big Horn guys start a Little Bighorn thread? Please?

 

[rickvox79]

Guys,
We're talking about two different fights here. Could the Little Big Horn guys start a Little Bighorn thread? Please?

Sorry couldn't help but responding to comments on LBH. Where would you all rank Custer in terms of Union Civil War cavalry officers if there was a top 5 that you had to come up with?

 

[TDMD]

I will defend the lady, it's what we do. This is a valid question, Custer was supposdly a cavalry commander and should have some small inkling of the importance of timely intel on the enemies location and strength. Now in his defense he was trained by Grant and Sheridan who themselves didn't seem to know or care. I couldn't help myself.

Grant didn't know or care about cavalry? Did you ever hear of Grierson's Raid? Who do you think sent him on that raid?

 

[Samuel.Sohm]

Didn't say he didn't make a mistake (big one), was just trying to get a look at his actions from a different angle. Can we say he miscalculated in figuring the Indians would decamp and scatter?

I would totally agree with that statement, and it's not like he was the only one misjudging either. But the burden of command is such that ultimately it was his fault that his men were unprepared, that's why I take the position that I do. I think you and i agree on most things, and even on this subject we are mostly of the same accord, just I am harder on leaders than some I suppose.

 

[GELongstreet]

Well, my opinion is both clear and fixed, and with the promiss of not replying with details any further to this issue on this thread I´ll put it in easy and understandable words:

 

[deleson1]

I would totally agree with that statement, and it's not like he was the only one misjudging either. But the burden of command is such that ultimately it was his fault that his men were unprepared, that's why I take the position that I do. I think you and i agree on most things, and even on this subject we are mostly of the same accord, just I am harder on leaders than some I suppose.

Samuel, a question for you. If it is your opinion that not having the gatling gun was a major mistake by Custer, would not the blame have to be on Terry, his commanding officer. If Terry felt the guns were necessary he should of ordered Custer to take them, not merely offer them.

 

[M E Wolf]

O.R.--SERIES I--VOLUME XXVII/1 [S# 43] -- Gettysburg Campaign
No. 9. -- Organization of the Army of the Potomac, Maj. Gen. George G. Meade, U.S. Army, commanding, at the battle of Gettysburg, July 1-3, 1863.
CAVALRY CORPS.
Maj. Gen. ALFRED PLEASONTON.
FIRST DIVISION.
Brig. Gen. JOHN BUFORD.
First Brigade.
Col. WILLIAM GAMBLE.
8th Illinois, Maj. John L. Beveridge.
12th Illinois (four cos.), } Col. George H. Chapman.
3d Indiana (six cos.), }
8th New York, Lieut. Col. William L. Markell.
Second Brigade.
Col. THOMAS C. DEVIN.
6th New York, Maj. Wm. E. Beardsley.
9th New York, Col. William Sackett.
17th Pennsylvania, Col. J. H. Kellogg.
3d West Virginia (two companies), Capt. Seymour B. Conger.
Reserve Brigade.
Brig. Gen. WESLEY MERRITT.
6th Pennsylvania, Maj. James H. Haseltine.
1st United States, Capt. Richard S.C. Lord.
2d United States, Capt. T. F. Rodenbough.
5th United States, Capt. Julius W. Mason.
6th United States:
Maj. Samuel H. Starr. Lieut. Louis H. Carpenter. Lieut. Nicholas Nolan.
Capt. Ira W. Claflin.

SECOND DIVISION.
Brig. Gen. DAVID McM. GREGG.
Headquarters Guard.
1st Ohio, Company A, Capt. Noah Jones.
First Brigade.
Col. JOHN B. McINTOSH.
1st Maryland (eleven companies), Lieut. Col. James M. Deems.
Purnell (Maryland) Legion, Company A, Capt. Robert E. Duvall.
1st Massachusetts,(*) Lieut. Col. Greely S. Curtis.
1st New Jersey, Maj. M. H. Beaumont.
1st Pennsylvania, Col. John P. Taylor.
3d Pennsylvania, Lieut. Col. E. S. Jones.
3d Pennsylvania Heavy Artillery, Section Battery H,(+) Capt. W. D. Rank.
Second Brigade.
Col. PENNOCK HUEY.
2d New York, Lieut. Col. Otto Harhaus.
4th New York, Lieut. Col. Augustus Pruyn.
6th Ohio (ten companies), Maj. William Stedman.
8th Pennsylvania, Capt. William A. Corrie.

Third Brigade.
Col. J. IRVIN GREGG.
1st Maine (ten companies), Lieut. Col. Charles H. Smith.
10th New York, Maj. M. Henry Avery.
4th Pennsylvania, Lieut. Col. William E. Doster.
16th Pennsylvania, Lieut. Col. John K. Robison.

THIRD DIVISION.
Brig. Gen. JUDSON KILPATRICK.
Headquarters Guard.
1st Ohio, Company C, Capt. Samuel N. Stanford.
First Brigade.
Brig. Gen. ELON J. FARNSWORTH.
Col. NATHANIEL P. RICHMOND.
5th New York, Maj. John Hammond.
18th Pennsylvania, Lieut. Col. William P. Brinton.
1st Vermont, Lieut. Col. Addison W. Preston.
1st West Virginia (ten companies):
Col. Nathaniel P. Richmond.
Maj. Charles E. Capehart.
Second Brigade.
Brig. Gen. GEORGE A. CUSTER.
1st Michigan, Col. Charles H. Town.
5th Michigan, Col. Russell A. Alger.
6th Michigan, Col. George Gray.
7th Michigan (ten companies), Col. William D. Mann.

Be a good idea on identifying which "Gregg" posters are speaking about.

M. E. Wolf

 

[Samuel.Sohm]

Samuel, a question for you. If it is your opinion that not having the gatling gun was a major mistake by Custer, would not the blame have to be on Terry, his commanding officer. If Terry felt the guns were necessary he should of ordered Custer to take them, not merely offer them.

I can only speak from a position as a warrior now-a-days. Yes I think not having ANYTHING that could give you an advantage over the enemy is a large mistake. I'll give you an example:

I went out on a patrol with a few of my soldiers once, and one of the soldiers objected as to why they had to bring the AT-4 (an anti tank weapon) on a foot patrol as the Taliban had no tanks to fight us with. The platoon sergeant (a man who was on his 4th deployment and a seasoned soldier) dismissed it as his men would never be caught unprepared ever. Two weeks later they were ambushed from High ground by a machine gun crew a small distance away in a cave. Instead of waiting for extraction, losing anyone waiting for air support, or assaulting the enemy head on (which was the only way to do it) the Platoon leader had that same soldier who had complained about the AT-4 use it to kill the Taliban and save the lives of his friends. It wasn't the job of the Company Commander to check behind a platoon size element to see if they have anything, it was the job of the leader on the ground and going into the specific situation.

I type all this to say that Custer was the commander on the ground. He did not use the superior firepower that was offered to him, and both he and his soldiers paid the price.

 

[General]

Hi to all,

Just wanted to get some feedback from the members on how they
rated Custer as a Cavalry Commander during the Civil War.

Thanks....................jessgettysburg1863 .

Custer was a great calvary commander, but he made mistakes just like every other human being(Little Bighorn being one) and is worthy of respect.