Custer George Armstrong Custer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[K Hale]

Whoa.

Coming from an Autie fanatic? I just consider the source.

 

[cash]

Do you think Hancock would have left his gatling guns?

Yes.

 

[damYankee]

I would not speak for Hancock. It takes a certain amount of what some would call ego, what others would call self confidence to achieve the rank of general in any army and any time in history, it requires a type a personality. The shrinking reclusive shy type need not apply.
Hancock and Custer both proved themselves at Gettysburg. Hancock taking command on the first day and turning what could have been a disaster into a situation that gave the Union the upper hand in the fight to come on the next 2 days.
Custer's brilliant leadership and his attack on a larger cavalry unit lead by Stuart disproved the myth of Confederate Cavalry superiority.
In all fairness Custer was failed by Benteen and Reno at the Little Bighorn. That being said Custer ignored his scouts who warned him not to attack.

 

[Lee]

I don't believe the Lakota or the Cheyenne had any contact with Custer during the Civil War.

I don't believe they were all that impressed or fearful of Custer past or present...........One thing they did demonstrate to him was what a half hour of hell was all about..........

 

[K Hale]

Custer's brilliant leadership and his attack on a larger cavalry unit lead by Stuart disproved the myth of Confederate Cavalry superiority.

Couple of things. Stuart was not attacked, he was the attacking force. The Union cavalry at Gettysburg was led by David M. Gregg, not Custer.

 

[jessgettysburg1863]

Custer was impetuous and could get himself into trouble, but he usually also got himself out of trouble. He was an inspiring leader in the Civil War, and his men loved him. See the memoirs of J. H. Kidd, for example.

http://books.google.com/books/about/Personal_Recollections_of_Cavalryman_wit.html?id=UZQW8K3d-SgC

During the Civil War, he didn't tell his men to charge, he told them to "follow me" (to use the motto of the infantry). He would start off toward the enemy and call back, "Come on, you wolverines!" In the words of historian Paul Andrew Hutton, how could you not follow him?

A great book on Custer in the Civil War is Greg Urwin's Custer Victorious.

http://books.google.com/books?id=fBcuOI4Hk8QC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Custer Victorious&hl=en#v=onepage&q=Custer Victorious&f=false

Thanks for the post and infomation, l will try and find the book you mentioned.

Thanks....................Jess .

 

[jessgettysburg1863]

I have to break down his life, are we talking his whole military career. I look at it as 2 parts of his military life. I will stick mostly to his civil war service. During the civil war he never lost a battle, he and his units captured over 40 confederate flags, defeated Stuart, who was/is acknowledeged as the premier cavalry commander at Gettysburg. which some say is as critical a battle as little round top. He never lost a artillary piece, never lost a color- I would put him equl to Forrest as the Unions most daring, most successful Union cavalry commander. A good read is
"Custer Victorious" The Civil War Battles of General George Armstrong Custer by Gregory W. Urwin .
Being from Michigan I always figured his history was all hype by the state of Michigan(you know how it is we all want someone from our particular state to be the best ever). So I really never read much about him until the last couple of years. He is actually what his hype said he was. Brass, bold, family oriented, a bit self centered, But he was just what the north needed at the time. Just like Grant.
In my opinion Stuart is the one who is not what myth makes him out to be. He was just better than the crappy union cav. at the time. When finally confronted with troops and command his equal he falls flat--Gasp did I type that OHHH MY- thats as bad a saying that Jackson wasn't all that either. Some Icons can't stand up to their myth.

Thanks for the post, l like your info on Custer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[cash]

Here's what James H. Kidd had to say about Custer:

"Stars of the first magnitude did not appear often in the galaxy of military heroes. Custer was one of the few.

"The popular idea of Custer is a misconception. He was not a reckless commander. He was not regardless of human life. No man could have been more careful of the comfort and lives of his men. His heart was tender as that of a woman. He was kind to his subordinates, tolerant of their weaknesses, always ready to help and encourage them. He was brave as a lion, fought as few men fought, but it was from no love of it. Fighting was his business; and he knew that by that means alone could peace be conquered. He was brave, alert, untiring, a hero in battle, relentless in the pursuit of a beaten enemy, stubborn and full of resources on the retreat. His tragic death at the Little Big Horn crowned his career with a tragic interest that will not wane while history or tradition endure. Hundreds of brave men shed tears when they heard of it--men who had served under and learned to love him in the trying times of civil war." [James H. Kidd, Riding With Custer: Recollections of a Cavalryman in the Civil War, p. 131]

 

[jessgettysburg1863]

Here's what James H. Kidd had to say about Custer:

"Stars of the first magnitude did not appear often in the galaxy of military heroes. Custer was one of the few.

"The popular idea of Custer is a misconception. He was not a reckless commander. He was not regardless of human life. No man could have been more careful of the comfort and lives of his men. His heart was tender as that of a woman. He was kind to his subordinates, tolerant of their weaknesses, always ready to help and encourage them. He was brave as a lion, fought as few men fought, but it was from no love of it. Fighting was his business; and he knew that by that means alone could peace be conquered. He was brave, alert, untiring, a hero in battle, relentless in the pursuit of a beaten enemy, stubborn and full of resources on the retreat. His tragic death at the Little Big Horn crowned his career with a tragic interest that will not wane while history or tradition endure. Hundreds of brave men shed tears when they heard of it--men who had served under and learned to love him in the trying times of civil war." [James H. Kidd, Riding With Custer: Recollections of a Cavalryman in the Civil War, p. 131]

Thanks so much for the post, nice info about him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jess........................ .

 

[damYankee]

Couple of things. Stuart was not attacked, he was the attacking force. The Union cavalry at Gettysburg was led by David M. Gregg, not Custer.

To be precise, at 11:00 AM on 3 July, Stuart arrived north of East Cavalry Field and ordered four canons fired, one for each direction of the compass, this was his signal to other CSA commanders that he was in position, US Gen. Gregg heard the firing. He responded by moving his forces and Custer's forces to block Stuart. In the ensuing artillery dual the north took the advantage. Stuart tried to flank the Union skirmishers by crossing Cress Ridge but the Mich. 5th Cav. with the advantage of Spencer Rifles turned them back.
Seeing this Stuart ordered the 1st Va. Cav. to charge the Union forces to stop their advance.. Around 1:00 p.m. Rebel Artillery opened up on Cemetery Ridge. Confederate troops swarmed across Rummel's Farm pushing the Union forces back.
Gregg ordered Custer to counterattack with the 7th Michigan. Custer shouted his famous line "Come on you Wolverines!" and led the charge, both cavalry forces smashed into each other on Rummel's farm. The fighting was point blank range, Custer's horse was shot out from under him. Taking his buglers horse, he led his men to break down a fence and gave pursuit to the retreating 1st Va. Cav.
Gen. Stuart sent a large force to reinforce the 1st Va. forcing Custer to order the 7th Mich. to retreat and regroup. It was at this point that Stuart sent Gen. Wade Hamptons's brigade, at a gallop into the Union lines. Union horse artillery fired on Hampton's force, slowing them, but not breaking up his advance. For the second time Custer yelled "Come on you Wolverines!" and the again his men rallied and charged, reportedly with Custer in the lead. The opposing cavalry forces smashed into each other in a fury, Custer lost his second horse of the day.
It was reported that several horses rammed headlong into each other, upending horses, many men were crushed under horses, after forty minutes of chaotic fighting of the worse kind, face to face, hand to hand, smashing heads with the butt of a rifle, slashing and thrusting with blades, breaking jaws and skulls anything available, the Rebel forces withdrew from the field. Custer's men were battered and exhausted, of the 254 Union casualties 219 of them were from Custer's command.
So yes, Stuart's men were advancing, and yes Custer led not one, but two charges against a larger Confederate force that day. There were many brave men who served during the Civil War, at Gettysburg there was no shortage of courage on either side, but on 3 July, on Rummel's Farm, there was none braver then Custer. We can only ponder what happened those many years latter on a grassy knoll in Montana, but Custer no doubt fought bravely to the very end and never asked more of his men then he offered of himself.

 

[jessgettysburg1863]

To be precise, at 11:00 AM on 3 July, Stuart arrived north of East Cavalry Field and ordered four canons fired, one for each direction of the compass, this was his signal to other CSA commanders that he was in position, US Gen. Gregg heard the firing. He responded by moving his forces and Custer's forces to block Stuart. In the ensuing artillery dual the north took the advantage. Stuart tried to flank the Union skirmishers by crossing Cress Ridge but the Mich. 5th Cav. with the advantage of Spencer Rifles turned them back.
Seeing this Stuart ordered the 1st Va. Cav. to charge the Union forces to stop their advance.. Around 1:00 p.m. Rebel Artillery opened up on Cemetery Ridge. Confederate troops swarmed across Rummel's Farm pushing the Union forces back.
Gregg ordered Custer to counterattack with the 7th Michigan. Custer shouted his famous line "Come on you Wolverines!" and led the charge, both cavalry forces smashed into each other on Rummel's farm. The fighting was point blank range, Custer's horse was shot out from under him. Taking his buglers horse, he led his men to break down a fence and gave pursuit to the retreating 1st Va. Cav.
Gen. Stuart sent a large force to reinforce the 1st Va. forcing Custer to order the 7th Mich. to retreat and regroup. It was at this point that Stuart sent Gen. Wade Hamptons's brigade, at a gallop into the Union lines. Union horse artillery fired on Hampton's force, slowing them, but not breaking up his advance. For the second time Custer yelled "Come on you Wolverines!" and the again his men rallied and charged, reportedly with Custer in the lead. The opposing cavalry forces smashed into each other in a fury, Custer lost his second horse of the day.
It was reported that several horses rammed headlong into each other, upending horses, many men were crushed under horses, after forty minutes of chaotic fighting of the worse kind, face to face, hand to hand, smashing heads with the butt of a rifle, slashing and thrusting with blades, breaking jaws and skulls anything available, the Rebel forces withdrew from the field. Custer's men were battered and exhausted, of the 254 Union casualties 219 of them were from Custer's command.
So yes, Stuart's men were advancing, and yes Custer led not one, but two charges against a larger Confederate force that day. There were many brave men who served during the Civil War, at Gettysburg there was no shortage of courage on either side, but on 3 July, on Rummel's Farm, there was none braver then Custer. We can only ponder what happened those many years latter on a grassy knoll in Montana, but Custer no doubt fought bravely to the very end and never asked more of his men then he offered of himself.

Brilliant post, a great read about G. A. Custer, very informative.

jessgettysburg1863 .

 

[K Hale]

To be precise, at 11:00 AM on 3 July, Stuart arrived north of East Cavalry Field and ordered four canons fired, one for each direction of the compass, this was his signal to other CSA commanders that he was in position, US Gen. Gregg heard the firing. He responded by moving his forces and Custer's forces to block Stuart. In the ensuing artillery dual the north took the advantage. Stuart tried to flank the Union skirmishers by crossing Cress Ridge but the Mich. 5th Cav. with the advantage of Spencer Rifles turned them back.
Seeing this Stuart ordered the 1st Va. Cav. to charge the Union forces to stop their advance.. Around 1:00 p.m. Rebel Artillery opened up on Cemetery Ridge. Confederate troops swarmed across Rummel's Farm pushing the Union forces back.
Gregg ordered Custer to counterattack with the 7th Michigan. Custer shouted his famous line "Come on you Wolverines!" and led the charge, both cavalry forces smashed into each other on Rummel's farm. The fighting was point blank range, Custer's horse was shot out from under him. Taking his buglers horse, he led his men to break down a fence and gave pursuit to the retreating 1st Va. Cav.
Gen. Stuart sent a large force to reinforce the 1st Va. forcing Custer to order the 7th Mich. to retreat and regroup. It was at this point that Stuart sent Gen. Wade Hamptons's brigade, at a gallop into the Union lines. Union horse artillery fired on Hampton's force, slowing them, but not breaking up his advance. For the second time Custer yelled "Come on you Wolverines!" and the again his men rallied and charged, reportedly with Custer in the lead. The opposing cavalry forces smashed into each other in a fury, Custer lost his second horse of the day.
It was reported that several horses rammed headlong into each other, upending horses, many men were crushed under horses, after forty minutes of chaotic fighting of the worse kind, face to face, hand to hand, smashing heads with the butt of a rifle, slashing and thrusting with blades, breaking jaws and skulls anything available, the Rebel forces withdrew from the field. Custer's men were battered and exhausted, of the 254 Union casualties 219 of them were from Custer's command.
So yes, Stuart's men were advancing, and yes Custer led not one, but two charges against a larger Confederate force that day. There were many brave men who served during the Civil War, at Gettysburg there was no shortage of courage on either side, but on 3 July, on Rummel's Farm, there was none braver then Custer. We can only ponder what happened those many years latter on a grassy knoll in Montana, but Custer no doubt fought bravely to the very end and never asked more of his men then he offered of himself.

But what I said was, the Federal force was led by Gregg, not Custer. And it was. Just as the Confederate force was led by Stuart, not Hampton. Gregg has become the forgotten man, and that's a shame.

I'm not sure what the rest of it has to do with anything I said.

 

[damYankee]

Couple of things. Stuart was not attacked, he was the attacking force. The Union cavalry at Gettysburg was led by David M. Gregg, not Custer.

Gregg was Custer's commander. I agree that Gregg's accomplishments and record during the Civil War deserves it's own thread, this post however is about Custer.

 

[K Hale]

Gregg was Custer's commander. I agree that Gregg's accomplishments and record during the Civil War deserves it's own thread, this post however is about Custer.

And what I'm saying is that Custer did not command the Federal cavalry at East Cavalry Field as was stated.

This post is also about Custer... correcting an exaggeration of his record.

 

[ole]

Gregg led the cavalry on that field; Custer led the charge.

 

[K Hale]

Gregg led the cavalry on that field; Custer led the charge.

Correct. Just as Stuart led the cavalry on the other side, while Hampton led the charge. Yet we don't hear that anybody beat Hampton, we hear that somebody beat Stuart. Right? Gregg, not Custer. Stuart, not Hampton.

 

[damYankee]

Correct. Just as Stuart led the cavalry on the other side, while Hampton led the charge. Yet we don't hear that anybody beat Hampton, we hear that somebody beat Stuart. Right? Gregg, not Custer. Stuart, not Hampton.

Isn't that what I said in my description of the events of the day? I'm pretty sure it was...

 

[ole]

Correct. Just as Stuart led the cavalry on the other side, while Hampton led the charge. Yet we don't hear that anybody beat Hampton, we hear that somebody beat Stuart. Right? Gregg, not Custer. Stuart, not Hampton.

Are you mixing up Hanover and East Cavalry Field?

 

[K Hale]

Are you mixing up Hanover and East Cavalry Field?

No. I'm trying to correct the common misimpression that Custer led the Federal cavalry at Gettysburg.

 

[K Hale]

Isn't that what I said in my description of the events of the day? I'm pretty sure it was...

What you said was, "Custer's brilliant leadership and his attack on a larger cavalry unit lead by Stuart disproved the myth of Confederate Cavalry superiority."

The impression one is left with from this is that Custer led one side and Stuart led the other. And that the Federal side were the attackers.