Custer George Armstrong Custer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[prroh]

I cant disagree with anything said here. His main issue was youth and inexperience. Look at him vs. Winfield Scott Hancock. Two men who were roughly the same rank by the end of the war, but WORLDS apart in experience and confidence of their superiors. Do you think Hancock would have left his gatling guns?

Weren't they Hothkiss(? sp) guns that he left behind. It was these types of guns that were used by the 7th Cavalry at Wounded Knee.

Since the thread asks our opinions about Custer during the CW, whatever the guns might have been is off-topic.

During the war, Custer gave his men elan. Within a short period after Gettysburg, his men purchased and wore the red scarves like the one sported by their young commander. Custer's capture of ANV artillery and supply trains at Appomattox Station was impressive. He handled himself as good, if not better than Stuart at Hanover and Gettysburg, although Hampton proved troublesome.

 

[prroh]

No. I'm trying to correct the common misimpression that Custer led the Federal cavalry at Gettysburg.

He led the Michigan brigade which did most of the fighting.

 

[cash]

What you said was, "Custer's brilliant leadership and his attack on a larger cavalry unit lead by Stuart disproved the myth of Confederate Cavalry superiority."

The impression one is left with from this is that Custer led one side and Stuart led the other. And that the Federal side were the attackers.

What was the line from the movie, Patton? "Rommel undoubtedly planned the operation, so if you defeated the plan, you defeated Rommel."

 

[K Hale]

He led the Michigan brigade which did most of the fighting.

That is correct.

 

[K Hale]

What was the line from the movie, Patton? "Rommel undoubtedly planned the operation, so if you defeated the plan, you defeated Rommel."

Whatever that means. I'm not a WW2 buff.

 

[prroh]

Whatever that means. I'm not a WW2 buff.

Not to worry, doesn't apply to the situation anyway. Stuart, unlike Rommel, was present and withdrew, largely due to Custer's leadership.

The East Cavalry fight was depicted in one of the more historically incorrect Errol Flynn/Oliva DeHaviland films, They die With Their Boots On. Yes, Flynn/Custer shouts "Come on you Wolverines" and Sidney Greenstreet as Winfield Scott was correctly cast. But the real topper is a scene in the War Department in which Libbie Custer/DeHaviland and Winfield Scott/ Sidney Greenstreet are reading ticker tapes of minute by minute details , live from the battlefield. Forget about how a telegraphic connection was made in the field for a chance encounter but consider that Scott had retired the year before and was in Europe at the time, as I recall. Edison hadn't invented the telegraph repeater which translated the "dots and dashes" so Scott and Libby must have been master readers of Morse Code and Libby may be home in Michigan. i think the ticker tape was invented . Yet, on these boards and this thread, we see movies constantly used as sources.

 

[cash]

Whatever that means. I'm not a WW2 buff.

An analogy.

Stuart planned their movement, so defeat the plan, defeat Stuart, by that particular formulation.

 

[Samuel.Sohm]

Weren't they Hothkiss(? sp) guns that he left behind. It was these types of guns that were used by the 7th Cavalry at Wounded Knee.

Since the thread asks our opinions about Custer during the CW, whatever the guns might have been is off-topic.

During the war, Custer gave his men elan. Within a short period after Gettysburg, his men purchased and wore the red scarves like the one sported by their young commander. Custer's capture of ANV artillery and supply trains at Appomattox Station was impressive. He handled himself as good, if not better than Stuart at Hanover and Gettysburg, although Hampton proved troublesome.

I read gatling guns....
http://artillerymanmagazine.com/Archives/2000/custer_Su00.html

And I disagree that it is "off topic" a commander not bringing enough firepower to support his command in this day and age on the battlefield gets you relieved or killed because of your stupidity (as was the case for Custer). I'm not saying Custer never did anything right, nor am I saying he was the greatest commander in the history of the world. My PERSONAL opinion is that this example, along with the comparison to Hancock in MY mind shows Custers lack of experience and his critical failure to make the command decision and choose the harder right vs. the easier wrong. My battalion commanders would NEVER (and I mean NEVER) go out of range of our artillery, or CAS, or base of fire, or whatever. That is the difference. Being sure you are safe, vs. wanting to have a glorious battle. Just my opinion, you are entitled to yours.

 

[East Tennessee Roots]

One of my heroes will always be Johnny Cash, He once wrote a song about the General : " Custer Don't Ride Well Anymore "

 

[prroh]

I read gatling guns....
http://artillerymanmagazine.com/Archives/2000/custer_Su00.html

And I disagree that it is "off topic" a commander not bringing enough firepower to support his command in this day and age on the battlefield gets you relieved or killed because of your stupidity (as was the case for Custer). I'm not saying Custer never did anything right, nor am I saying he was the greatest commander in the history of the world. My PERSONAL opinion is that this example, along with the comparison to Hancock in MY mind shows Custers lack of experience and his critical failure to make the command decision and choose the harder right vs. the easier wrong. My battalion commanders would NEVER (and I mean NEVER) go out of range of our artillery, or CAS, or base of fire, or whatever. That is the difference. Being sure you are safe, vs. wanting to have a glorious battle. Just my opinion, you are entitled to yours.

Since the topic is CW, the Indian Wars are off-topic. Custer refused the guns as he felt the guns and carriages would slow him down. Since he was thoroughly experienced at moving cross-country, I assume his on the scene opinion is as good as a 2012 opinion.

 

[hoosier]

Custer got himself in big trouble at the battle of Trevilian Station in 1864.

Custer ordered a charge against an apparently unguarded Confederate supply train. Though he temporarily succeeded in capturing a good number of men, horses, and wagons, he got himself separated from the rest of the Union forces and was subsequently almost completely surrounded by Hampton's brigades.

Custer, believing that his position was about to be overrun, tore his flag from its staff when the flagbearer was hit and hid the flag within his coat. Fortunately for Custer, Sheridan recognized his predicament and sent Devin's and Merritt's brigades to the rescue. Custer's command was saved, but at the cost of 361 casualties, including more than half of the 5th Michigan. But when Sheridan subsequently asked Custer if he had lost his colors, Custer, with his accustomed bravado, pulled them from his coat and said "Not by a damned sight!" (Our ever-vigilant automatic censor prevents the use of Custer's actual verbiage, but a homonym of a word referring to a structure built to hold back flowing water is involved.)

Eric Wittenberg has referred to the incident as Custer's First Last Stand.

 

[K Hale]

An analogy.

Stuart planned their movement, so defeat the plan, defeat Stuart, by that particular formulation.

Stuart was defeated. By Gregg, the man who sent Custer into action.

 

[prroh]

Custer got himself in big trouble at the battle of Trevilian Station in 1864.

Custer ordered a charge against an apparently unguarded Confederate supply train. Though he temporarily succeeded in capturing a good number of men, horses, and wagons, he got himself separated from the rest of the Union forces and was subsequently almost completely surrounded by Hampton's brigades.

As I said, Custer had some problems with Hampton but at Hanover and Gettysburg Stuart presented no such difficulties.

 

[prroh]

Stuart was defeated. By Gregg, the man who sent Custer into action.

Custer did not report to Gregg. he attached himself to Gregg's command and did most of the fighting. Not sure he gregg issued orders to Custer.

 

[K Hale]

Custer did not report to Gregg. he attached himself to Gregg's command and did most of the fighting. Not sure he gregg issued orders to Custer.

He just showed up and pitched in without first reporting to the man who outranked him and was already on the field?

 

[K Hale]

As I said, Custer had some problems with Hampton but at Hanover and Gettysburg Stuart presented no such difficulties.

Hampton was facing Custer at Gettysburg too.

 

[prroh]

Hampton was facing Custer at Gettysburg too.

Where Hampton was wounded by Custer's men as they chased Stuart off the field. As I said Hampton gave some problems, and there were times when Custer gave Hampton, literally, a big headache.

 

[Lee]

Custer got himself in big trouble at the battle of Trevilian Station in 1864.

Custer ordered a charge against an apparently unguarded Confederate supply train. Though he temporarily succeeded in capturing a good number of men, horses, and wagons, he got himself separated from the rest of the Union forces and was subsequently almost completely surrounded by Hampton's brigades.

Custer, believing that his position was about to be overrun, tore his flag from its staff when the flagbearer was hit and hid the flag within his coat. Fortunately for Custer, Sheridan recognized his predicament and sent Devin's and Merritt's brigades to the rescue. Custer's command was saved, but at the cost of 361 casualties, including more than half of the 5th Michigan. But when Sheridan subsequently asked Custer if he had lost his colors, Custer, with his accustomed bravado, pulled them from his coat and said "Not by a ****ed sight!" (Our ever-vigilant automatic censor prevents the use of Custer's actual verbiage, but a homonym of a word referring to a structure built to hold back flowing water is involved.)

Eric Wittenberg has referred to the incident as Custer's First Last Stand.

Isn't that the battle shortly after Yellow Tavern where the Michigan trooper who mortally wounded General Stuart was KIA? I do not wish to irritate the mods but aren't such structures in the South referred to as Day ums? <g> Someone once told me a healthy sense of humor is appreciated most everywhere.

 

[prroh]

He just showed up and pitched in without first reporting to the man who outranked him and was already on the field?

Custer was on the field and was to report to Kilpatrick when relieved by Gregg. Custer knew something was up and elected to remain on the field with Gregg. Had Gregg been on the field when Custer arrived, instead of the other way around, then you would have a valid point.

Even though Gregg played a rather passive role in the fight, he was still senior to Custer and entitled for the "win". Technically, Custer was disobeying orders by remaining after being relieved.

 

[damYankee]

What you said was, "Custer's brilliant leadership and his attack on a larger cavalry unit lead by Stuart disproved the myth of Confederate Cavalry superiority."

The impression one is left with from this is that Custer led one side and Stuart led the other. And that the Federal side were the attackers.

What I said was;

To be precise, at 11:00 AM on 3 July, Stuart arrived north of East Cavalry Field and ordered four canons fired, one for each direction of the compass, this was his signal to other CSA commanders that he was in position, US Gen. Gregg heard the firing. He responded by moving his forces and Custer's forces to block Stuart.
Read more: http://civilwartalk.com/threads/george-armstrong-custer.73049/page-2#ixzz1yMcNp3i9​

And;

Gregg ordered Custer to counterattack with the 7th Michigan. Custer shouted his famous line "Come on you Wolverines!" and led the charge, both cavalry forces smashed into each other on Rummel's farm. The fighting was point blank range, Custer's horse was shot out from under him. Taking his buglers horse, he led his men to break down a fence and gave pursuit to the retreating 1st Va. Cav.


Read more: http://civilwartalk.com/threads/george-armstrong-custer.73049/page-2#ixzz1yMcgfuOf​