Custer George Armstrong Custer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[K Hale]

Where Hampton was wounded by Custer's men as they chased Stuart off the field. As I said Hampton gave some problems, and there were times when Custer gave Hampton, literally, a big headache.

Absolutely.

 

[K Hale]

Custer was on the field and was to report to Kilpatrick when relieved by Gregg. Custer knew something was up and elected to remain on the field with Gregg. Had Gregg been on the field when Custer arrived, instead of the other way around, then you would have a valid point.

Even though Gregg played a rather passive role in the fight, he was still senior to Custer and entitled for the "win". Technically, Custer was disobeying orders by remaining after being relieved.

Yes but I think he had Gregg's OK. I'm away from my books right now but ISTR he asked Gregg if he could go in. As the ranking officer on the field, as far as I know, Gregg could have told Custer to get lost and quit interfering with his command.

 

[K Hale]

What I said was;
To be precise, at 11:00 AM on 3 July, Stuart arrived north of East Cavalry Field and ordered four canons fired, one for each direction of the compass, this was his signal to other CSA commanders that he was in position, US Gen. Gregg heard the firing. He responded by moving his forces and Custer's forces to block Stuart.
Read more: http://civilwartalk.com/threads/george-armstrong-custer.73049/page-2#ixzz1yMcNp3i9
And;
Gregg ordered Custer to counterattack with the 7th Michigan. Custer shouted his famous line "Come on you Wolverines!" and led the charge, both cavalry forces smashed into each other on Rummel's farm. The fighting was point blank range, Custer's horse was shot out from under him. Taking his buglers horse, he led his men to break down a fence and gave pursuit to the retreating 1st Va. Cav.

Read more: http://civilwartalk.com/threads/george-armstrong-custer.73049/page-2#ixzz1yMcgfuOf

Yes, all of which was posted after my correction on who commanded the Federal cavalry.

 

[prroh]

Yes but I think he had Gregg's OK. I'm away from my books right now but ISTR he asked Gregg if he could go in. As the ranking officer on the field, as far as I know, Gregg could have told Custer to get lost and quit interfering with his command.

sure Custer asked for and received Gregg's approval to stick around. Lots of Union cavalry officers smelled trouble in the air. Gregg couldn't order Custer to disobey his orders but was happy to accept the offer of help. And, as I said, as ranking officer, Gregg gets a check mark in the "win" box. The whole thing was kinda impromptu.

 

[hoosier]

Isn't that the battle shortly after Yellow Tavern where the Michigan trooper who mortally wounded General Stuart was KIA? I do not wish to irritate the mods but aren't such structures in the South referred to as Day ums? <g> Someone once told me a healthy sense of humor is appreciated most everywhere.

John Huff, who mortally wounded Stuart at the battle of Yellow Tavern in May, died in the same month as the battle of Trevilian Station, but he did not fight in it.

He was wounded at Cold Harbor on June 1 and died of his wounds on June 23.

 

[Dave Wilma]

I believe he as a PRIME example of an officer who was advanced too quickly due to the Army needing trained men like him for command. It could not be helped, but the Little Bighorn (in my mind) ranks up there with Pickett's charge in the "he should have known better" column. Moral of Custer is never leave your Gatlings behind, and always ALWAYS bring your full basic load+25%

Caution: Custer Buff

Custer was impetuous and lucky, but his troopers during the War were not lucky. He lost many more men in his charges than was necessary.

The Gatlings would not have helped Custer other than to slow him down enough to not show up.

The troopers with Custer did not run out of ammo. A year after the LBH Indians returned to the battlefield to pick up unfired rounds.

 

[Samuel.Sohm]

Caution: Custer Buff

Custer was impetuous and lucky, but his troopers during the War were not lucky. He lost many more men in his charges than was necessary.

The Gatlings would not have helped Custer other than to slow him down enough to not show up.

The troopers with Custer did not run out of ammo. A year after the LBH Indians returned to the battlefield to pick up unfired rounds.

That Gatling comment is a major opinion area. Who leaves fire support in the rear when they aren't sure about their intel???

 

[ole]

That Gatling comment is a major opinion area. Who leaves fire support in the rear when they aren't sure about their intel???

He didn't want them slowing down the column. He was apparently convinced that the encampment would move on before he could get there.

 

[Lee]

John Huff, who mortally wounded Stuart at the battle of Yellow Tavern in May, died in the same month as the battle of Trevilian Station, but he did not fight in it.

He was wounded at Cold Harbor on June 1 and died of his wounds on June 23.

Thank you........

 

[Samuel.Sohm]

He didn't want them slowing down the column. He was apparently convinced that the encampment would move on before he could get there.

Hence the failure of his working assumption, which led to his failure to complete the mission. But that still didn't answer my original question. Who leaves their fire support behind when they aren't sure about their intel? The answer (for me) is a commander who isn't seeing the whole picture. Custer didn't see the whole picture, and he died for it. Though this is with 100+ years of hindsight.

 

[Freddy]

Custer had a history of what ended his career. In November 1868 Custer was ordered by Sheridan to pursue hostile Indians to their camps and attack and destroy them. Custer did just that at dawn on the 27th Custer had trailed a war party of Black Kettle's Cheyennes to his winter camp along the Washita River in the Indian Territory. Custer's 600 troopers charged the camp from four directions firing on any Indian in it. They killed an estimated 150 Indians, some women and children, and took many prisoners. They also slaughtered a herd of almost 700 horses. Other Indians villages in the vicinity sent warriors and Custer seeing this new threat arising decided to retreat with his victory over Black Kettle's camp and with Black Kettle and his wife dead in the attack. Custer lost 21 killed, mostly due to Major Joel Elliot's reckless reconnoiter into an unknown and unsupported Indian held area where he was killed along with nineteen of his men. Custer attempted the same battle plan at Little Big Horn in 1876. Unfortunately for Custer, the Sitting Bull/ Crazy Horse camp was 10 to 20 times larger than Black Kettle's in 1868. Custer again with 600 troopers tried to recreate their earlier victory. Instead of 150 warriors he found 1,500. For a short time the Northern Plains tribes got some payback.

 

[ole]

Hence the failure of his working assumption, which led to his failure to complete the mission. But that still didn't answer my original question. Who leaves their fire support behind when they aren't sure about their intel? The answer (for me) is a commander who isn't seeing the whole picture. Custer didn't see the whole picture, and he died for it. Though this is with 100+ years of hindsight.

You're being harsh on the youngster. He had no idea that the encampment would be as large as it was -- rarely, if ever, were that many Indians encamped together.

To be fairly speculative, they would have soon broken up into smaller groups and moved on. (Can't feed that many people and horses very long in that part of Montana. Kinda the G'burg corollary: Lee couldn't stay and he couldn't leave with 7 corps of the Union Army in close proximity.)

After making hash of the detachment Custer had with him, the tribes did what they always did: they broke up into smaller groups and went to favored hunting grounds.

 

[K Hale]

You're being harsh on the youngster. He had no idea that the encampment would be as large as it was

Why did he not know?

 

[ole]

Why did he not know?

You're joking, right. He didn't read his e-mail that morning?

 

[Samuel.Sohm]

You're joking, right. He didn't read his e-mail that morning?

I distinctly remember seeing Sheridan send him a text on his blackberry the morning of.......

 

[Samuel.Sohm]

You're being harsh on the youngster. He had no idea that the encampment would be as large as it was -- rarely, if ever, were that many Indians encamped together.

To be fairly speculative, they would have soon broken up into smaller groups and moved on. (Can't feed that many people and horses very long in that part of Montana. Kinda the G'burg corollary: Lee couldn't stay and he couldn't leave with 7 corps of the Union Army in close proximity.)

After making hash of the detachment Custer had with him, the tribes did what they always did: they broke up into smaller groups and went to favored hunting grounds.

I am harsh on him, yes. He had a duty to do two things, accomplish his mission and ensure the welfare of his men (in that order if it is the same way it is today). I get your point about the tribes having to break up eventually, but that does not change the fact that Custer moving quickly allowed for a perfect storm of poo to hit the fan with a group of soldiers not ready to handle said poo.....

 

[damYankee]

Yes, all of which was posted after my correction on who commanded the Federal cavalry.

The first post was a generalized statement, silly me, I thought most people on this forum were as well informed as you. I was not aware that I am the only poster required to post everything in detail. If I have failed your majesty show mercy on a poor nit like myself...or just click your ruby reds twice and return to Kansas...
Did I pass the finial exam?

 

[ole]

I am harsh on him, yes. He had a duty to do two things, accomplish his mission and ensure the welfare of his men (in that order if it is the same way it is today). I get your point about the tribes having to break up eventually, but that does not change the fact that Custer moving quickly allowed for a perfect storm of poo to hit the fan with a group of soldiers not ready to handle said poo.....

Didn't say he didn't make a mistake (big one), was just trying to get a look at his actions from a different angle. Can we say he miscalculated in figuring the Indians would decamp and scatter?

 

[ole]

The first post was a generalized statement, silly me, I thought most people on this forum were as well informed as you. I was not aware that I am the only poster required to post everything in detail. If I have failed your majesty show mercy on a poor nit like myself...or just click your ruby reds twice and return to Kansas...
Did I pass the finial exam?

Can you haul it back, damYankee? Ms. Hale has been annoying everyone since God was a pup. Get used to it.

 

[damYankee]

Can you haul it back, damYankee? Ms. Hale has been annoying everyone since God was a pup. Get used to it.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll dial back, and hope I don't get the 3rd degree again. I was starting to feel like Joe Friday was grilling for littering or something..