Army Life And Marksmanship

[treebie2000]

And btw infantry is as cheap as they come. Elevated peasants. Queen of nothing.

"Elevated peasants"…really? That's how you characterize Infantrymen?
I was gonna respond to this but I don't guess it's worth it.

 

[Yankeedave]

They didn't fight that way at Gettysburg.
What is it you're saying?

Once they got into the creek bed? Prior to the attack I doubt they stood shoulder waiting to go in. Probably did what I was told...keep your head down.

 

[Yankeedave]

"Elevated peasants"…really? That's how you characterize Infantrymen?
I was gonna respond to this but I don't guess it's worth it.

Respond how? As a grunt I do have an idea of an infantryman's place I'm battle. It's not bitter. It's respective of that place. I know my job.

 

[Yankeedave]

And when you really know your job you get one of these:

 

[Yankeedave]

And one of these:

 

[Yankeedave]

And one of these:

 

[Yankeedave]

And t shirts:

 

[bayonet]

And when you really know your job you get one of these:
View attachment 431741

What no Jumpwings you Leg who could't get one of those! Had one my whole career. Please your embarrassing us in front of all the Marines here on this website. The Marine Rifle qualification made our Army Rifle qualification look like Girl Scouts.

 

[Yankeedave]

What no Jumpwings you Leg who could't get one of those! Had one my whole career. Please your embarrassing us in front of all the Marines here on this website. The Marine Rifle qualification made our Army Rifle qualification look like Girl Scouts.

Sigh...it was one of these:

and you may be embarrassed by your service. sorry you qualified poorly.

 

[bayonet]

Sigh...it was one of these:
View attachment 431762
and you may be embarrassed by your service. sorry you qualified poorly.

Whats that? Airmobile "The 10 toughest Days in the Army" anyone can jump out of a Helicopter, try jumping out of a plane! Ever wonder what happened to that sign at that school? "The 10 Toughest Days in the Army" was stolen in the middle of the night, cut in half, and then palletized back to our Ranger Battalion. Hung in our S3 shop as a joke . Not embarrassed by my service and I was highly qualified (thank you American Taxpayers). It's a FACT that Marine Corp Rifle qualification is much tougher than Army Rifle qualification to score Expert!

 

[bayonet]

Sigh...it was one of these:
View attachment 431762
and you may be embarrassed by your service. sorry you qualified poorly.

Actually on second thought I was embarrassed on the few times I flew back home on leave in Uniform back in the day. On time I walked into the USO at the airport while waiting for my connecting flight to grab a free snack and drink. There I was in my spit shined jump boots and beret (back then only SF & Rangers wore berets), buck Sergeant stripes, Ranger Tab, Scuba badge, etc.. In the room was numerous Army and 2 or 3 Marines (sorry no Navy or Air Force). I was disgusted, all the Army looked like they shined their shoes with a chocolate bar, uniforms looking ragged, one Bozo actually had his name tag on the wrong side of his dress greens! On the other hand the Marines looked sharp, shoes highly spit shined, all the brass shining, uniform well pressed and creased, high and tight haircut. I ate the snack drank the drink and walked out. BUT before I went I stopped in the middle of the room and announced words to the effect (or close to it), "Everyone look at these Marines, their uniforms look sharp and they take pride in their appearance. The rest of you look like a bunch of Bums and I'm embarrassed I'm in the same Army as you Clowns"! True story

 

[Lanyard Puller]

And when you really know your job you get one of these: so said @Yankeedave, with a marksmanship medal, and rightfully so! He was correct.

If you were a professional with excellent training and survived long enough you get even more glitter, most of which, such as The Purple Heart, you most likely didn't want.

"There are NO US troops in Cambodia", swore Prez. Nixon . {Ck out my avitar propped up on a O-1F Bird Dog in Phenom Phen}.
Been There...Done That

Didn't like the Army nearly as much as the Air Force. But that's got nothing to do with Gettysburg.
[ATTACH type="full" alt="20220208_133204_resized (2).jpg"]431784[/ATTACH]

 

[Yankeedave]

And when you really know your job you get one of these: so said @Yankeedave, with a marksmanship medal, and rightfully so! He was correct.

If you were a professional with excellent training and survived long enough you get even more glitter, most of which, such as The Purple Heart, you most likely didn't want. "There are NO US troops in Cambodia", swore Prez. Nixon . {Ck out my avitar propped up on a O-1F Bird Dog in Phenom Phen}.
Been There...Done That
Didn't like the Army nearly as much as the Air Force. But that's got nothing to do with Gettysburg.
[ATTACH type="full" alt="20220208_133204_resized (2).jpg"]431784[/ATTACH]

You're the guys who trained me. Hats off to yall. Told me to keep my fool head down. I still don't listen.
I thought about joining the Marines when army enlistment was up. I was bored. Took asvab again etc. Mom talked me out of it and I joined the national guard instead. That unit saw more deployments than lol.
and yes i digress...

 

[treebie2000]

Didn't like the Army nearly as much as the Air Force. But that's got nothing to do with Gettysburg.
View attachment 431784[/USER]
View attachment 431784

Much respect.

 

[wausaubob]

Rifle fire at 200+yards was on the whole ineffective during the civil war, because of poorly trained soldiers.
(and the terrain also made it impossible in many cases and as mentioned above almost all weapons was using cartridges that did not match their sights and in some cases the sights was not even in feet but different European measures)

At 125-200 yards it might have an effect, but the moment you get below 125 you might as well be using a smoothbore.

And when the combat range was less than 100 yards, then yes, a smoothbore that fire 4 bullets at the same time obviously inflict casualties much faster than a weapon only firing 1 bullet.

At Fredericksburg the federals got to about 40 yards.
And at a lot of other battles the attacker managed to get even closer.

Rifle muskets are only better weapons at 125+ yards and only in the hand of men who are well trained in marksmanship and know how to hit at 400+ yards.
The british managed to train all infantry in this.

Both sides during the civil war had problems just teaching the men to actually load and clean their guns.
And proper marksmanship training was almost never done outside of a few specific units.

Also a rifle musket is NOT faster to load than a percussion smoothbore. Where did you get this strange idea?

And it is especially not faster with with poor American cartridges that foul very quickly. And where you need to remove the bullet from the paper.
In comparison The bullet of a smoothbore was sufficiently undersized to not have the fouling issue to the same extent and you just loaded it with the paper.

Which is evidence of why the repeating weapons of Spencer and the few Henry rifles had so much impact on the end of the US Civil War. Most of the damage to the enemy occurred when the enemy was between 150 and 25 yards away. It was the rate of fire, not accuracy that matter during the seconds that the enemy was within that distance that mattered. This was probably especially true as the battlefield filled with smoke.
If @thomas aagaard is correct, it could explain why early in the war great masses of infantry could stand and shoot at each other with the result being only incidental casualties. By the middle of 1863 that was not the case. The soldiers had better weapons and were more adept at using them.

 

[johan_steele]

Which is evidence of why the repeating weapons of Spencer and the few Henry rifles had so much impact on the end of the US Civil War. Most of the damage to the enemy occurred when the enemy was between 150 and 25 yards away. It was the rate of fire, not accuracy that matter during the seconds that the enemy was within that distance that mattered. This was probably especially true as the battlefield filled with smoke.
If @thomas aagaard is correct, it could explain why early in the war great masses of infantry could stand and shoot at each other with the result being only incidental casualties. By the middle of 1863 that was not the case. The soldiers had better weapons and were more adept at using them.

Hence the, partly satirical, accuracy by volume quip often used.

 

[Story]

BUT before I went I stopped in the middle of the room and announced words to the effect (or close to it), "Everyone look at these Marines, their uniforms look sharp and they take pride in their appearance. The rest of you look like a bunch of Bums and I'm embarrassed I'm in the same Army as you Clowns"! True story

forgive them; for they know not what they do - Luke 23.34

Project 100,000: The Vietnam War's cruel experiment on American soldiers

Military recruits are supposed to be assessed to see whether they're fit for service. What happens when they're not?

bigthink.com

 

[wausaubob]

Accuracy would be an issue. But how many soldiers did not know how to correctly load, shoot, and field clean their rifle? I am not a rifle expert, but I think it takes just a little imagination to think of ways the percussion rifles would fail to fire after 20 shots. In addition it might be difficult to tell that a muzzle loader had a minie ball stuck in it, especially when the shooters were passing weapons to the loaders in the rear.
Its very hard not to notice that a repeater jammed and the cartridge was not loaded into the breacn.

 

[Cavalier]

@wausaubob I respectfully disagree with your remark in post #75 above wherein you refer to units taking only incidental casualties early in the war. The casualty figures for individual regiments on both sides at Antietam, Fredericksburg and Gettysburg, to name a few, were pretty **** horrendous, at least in my opinion, and I believe Henrys or Spencers would have been pretty few and far between. I don't have access to sources for earlier battles such as 1st. and 2nd. Bull Run, Yorktown, Seven Pines or Gains Mill but I have a suspicion that those casualty figures would be substantially more than incidental.

John

 

[Story]

Accuracy would be an issue. But how many soldiers did not know how to correctly load, shoot, and field clean their rifle? I am not a rifle expert, but I think it takes just a little imagination to think of ways the percussion rifles would fail to fire after 20 shots. In addition it might be difficult to tell that a muzzle loader had a minie ball stuck in it, especially when the shooters were passing weapons to the loaders in the rear.
Its very hard not to notice that a repeater jammed and the cartridge was not loaded into the breacn.

As with any army, any conflict, any epoch - yes, units poorly trained with their assigned weapon(s) tended to suffer for it, until they melted away or were properly trained.

The self-contained paper cartridge had been around for many a decade while those copper cased cartridges were brandy-new, so those faults and liabilities tended to balance each other out in the light of each system's benefits.

The self-contained carbine cartridges had limited range but a higher volume of fire, while the muzzleloading rifles' range and smack-down power were higher.

Make sense now?