Whitworth sniper round or post war?

[Old Soldier]

But they still never expanded to fit the rifling!

 

[ResearchPress]

Thanks for that. Though I rather get the feeling that among Whitworth's many talents arguing his case in a manner not calculated to get up the listener's nose was not among them. . . . . .

Oh Whitworth had lots of falling out with committee, to the point of withdrawing his rifles from trials at times.

David

 

[Trooper "D"]

If you read up on the supply of Whitworths to the Confederates, you will find that they were the shorter 2-band variety - not the three band type, so not as accurate, described as just a 'small number' and 'limited use'. So where are all these Whitworth bullets coming from? What other rifle used them? Most have an expansion recess in the base, but do not bear rifling marks so they were either discarded or fired from smoothbores.

Kerr Rifles?

 

[yulzari]

Whitworth patents covered cannon and firearms, and insofar as I am aware did not address bore size. He ended up with the .45 bore most commonly encountered for his rifle after experimenting with a variety of bore sizes and rifling twists. The 530 grain bullet weight was a Government requirement. By Whitworth's own request, Westley Richards had helped him with his experiments - Richards had a licence under Whitworth's system for his octagonal bore rifles.

David

Westley Richards had been working with the younger Brunel on polygonal (octagonal) rifling and making experimental rifles for him before Whitworth ever entered into rifling research. Brunel agreed with Westley Richards that he could pass on the results of their work and even actual rifles to Whitworth. Brunel refused to patent his work as he thought it was in the national interest. Whitworth had no such scruples. Westley Richards carried the 'Whitworth Patent' markings but made no patent payments. Whitworth knew he would lose any case if he took Westley Richards to court. Westley Richards both saw no need to wind up Whitworth and the Whitworth name brought some extra cachet to Monkey Tail rifle sales.

What Whitworth brought to the table was fast twists and hardened bullets. Polygonal rifling had been around almost as long as rifling has existed (as had fast twists) and had even been allied to an experimental Brunswick rifle (pentagonal) in the percussion era before Whitworth was ever involved. Whitworth put all three aspects together in one system, which failed in infantry use due to fouling and was superseded by more conventional rifling after a few years. For sniper use in the ACW period it was one of the best options available but that was a short window in firearms history.

As far as the OP is concerned, it may be a Whitworth bullet as they came in cylindrical and hexagonal forms but I am not qualified to advise further. It might also be a later bullet. I have found modern (.300") bullets on an English Civil War battlefield site (Home Guard P17 and/or BAR or Browning M1919) so being on an hIstorical site does not itself confirm it's history.

 

[Trooper "D"]

Westley Richards had been working with the younger Brunel on polygonal (octagonal) rifling and making experimental rifles for him before Whitworth ever entered into rifling research. Brunel agreed with Westley Richards that he could pass on the results of their work and even actual rifles to Whitworth. Brunel refused to patent his work as he thought it was in the national interest. Whitworth had no such scruples. Westley Richards carried the 'Whitworth Patent' markings but made no patent payments. Whitworth knew he would lose any case if he took Westley Richards to court. Westley Richards both saw no need to wind up Whitworth and the Whitworth name brought some extra cachet to Monkey Tail rifle sales.

What Whitworth brought to the table was fast twists and hardened bullets. Polygonal rifling had been around almost as long as rifling has existed (as had fast twists) and had even been allied to an experimental Brunswick rifle (pentagonal) in the percussion era before Whitworth was ever involved. Whitworth put all three aspects together in one system, which failed in infantry use due to fouling and was superseded by more conventional rifling after a few years. For sniper use in the ACW period it was one of the best options available but that was a short window in firearms history.

As far as the OP is concerned, it may be a Whitworth bullet as they came in cylindrical and hexagonal forms but I am not qualified to advise further. It might also be a later bullet. I have found modern (.300") bullets on an English Civil War battlefield site (Home Guard P17 and/or BAR or Browning M1919) so being on an hIstorical site does not itself confirm it's history.

My Whitworth bullet mold makes the twisted hexagonal bolts with a slight convex hollow bottom. Not sure why that base is incorporated into the design. No little nipple in the center though.

 

[Joe Whitworth]

But they still never expanded to fit the rifling!

There is no rifling, that's the whole point of Whitworth's brilliant design.

 

[Joe Whitworth]

My Whitworth bullet mold makes the twisted hexagonal bolts with a slight convex hollow bottom. Not sure why that base is incorporated into the design. No little nipple in the center though.

Do you have the English Peter Dyson produced mold?