Which is the repro Lorenz?

Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
270
Location
Lockhart, Texas
#1
I attended a small reenactment in Temple, Texas this past weekend. I had a table set up to peddle my Civil War novels and had my reproduction Austrian Lorenz musket laid on the table as a "hook" to attract spectators to stop and chat.

A fellow walked up with a musket, which I quickly recognized as looking like mine that was on the table. He passed it to me and said it was an original Austrian Lorenz and was looking to sell it for $1,500.

I handled it and laid it next to my reproduction model on the table. At ten feet they look the same, at five feet only a sharp-eye would pick up the variances. At three feet I could note this detail and that detail as being different.

So, here's your test: Which one is the real 160 year old musket and which is the 7 year old reproduction?
Top or Bottom Real Lorenz.jpg
 

(Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)

Delhi Rangers

First Sergeant
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Messages
1,263
Location
Alabama
#6
I attended a small reenactment in Temple, Texas this past weekend. I had a table set up to peddle my Civil War novels and had my reproduction Austrian Lorenz musket laid on the table as a "hook" to attract spectators to stop and chat.

A fellow walked up with a musket, which I quickly recognized as looking like mine that was on the table. He passed it to me and said it was an original Austrian Lorenz and was looking to sell it for $1,500.

I handled it and laid it next to my reproduction model on the table. At ten feet they look the same, at five feet only a sharp-eye would pick up the variances. At three feet I could note this detail and that detail as being different.

So, here's your test: Which one is the real 160 year old musket and which is the 7 year old reproduction?
View attachment 100711
Who made your repo?
 

Craig L Barry

Sergeant Major
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
2,031
Location
Murfreesboro, TN
#10
The most immediate giveaway from any distance is the so-called "handle" or wrist of the gun stock. The Loyalist reproduction made that area of the stock too long and thin, the original Lorenz is noticeably shorter through the area where the comb meets the wrist. It's one of the problems with attempts at defarbing the Loyalist M1854 Lorenz...you can take wood away but how do you add it where it needs to be?
 

James B White

Captain
Honored Fallen Comrade
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
6,171
#11
For what it's worth, I don't know anything about rifles/muskets. The two guns looked quite different, so it was mostly a matter of figuring out which matched an original. I googled images of original Lorenzes and immediately saw that the hammer going straight up and the pointed angle on the trigger guard were the original.
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
156
#12
I attended a small reenactment in Temple, Texas this past weekend. I had a table set up to peddle my Civil War novels and had my reproduction Austrian Lorenz musket laid on the table as a "hook" to attract spectators to stop and chat.

A fellow walked up with a musket, which I quickly recognized as looking like mine that was on the table. He passed it to me and said it was an original Austrian Lorenz and was looking to sell it for $1,500.

I handled it and laid it next to my reproduction model on the table. At ten feet they look the same, at five feet only a sharp-eye would pick up the variances. At three feet I could note this detail and that detail as being different.

So, here's your test: Which one is the real 160 year old musket and which is the 7 year old reproduction?
View attachment 100711
Philip, this may not be the right thread to ask this question, but I have an original Lorenz musket (the right lock plate is stamped 860), but I am unsure of the caliber. According to the man I got it from, he dug it up many years ago along side an old wagon trail near an old Butterfield stage station outside Tuscon, Arizona. He said it appeared that a sand bank had collapsed on top of the rifle many, many years ago leaving it in an almost vertical position with the tip of the barrel about 5 or 6 inches under the surface of the sand. It was cocked and loaded when he found it with the copper percussion cap still in place. Both the metal and the wood stock are in remarkably good condition with only some minor pitting here and there and the lock and trigger still function okay.

The problem is that the top few of inches of the barrel bore is pretty rusted and pitted where I assume infrequent Arizona rain water dribbled through the sand and into the end of the barrel over the years. The breech end of the barrel unscrews okay and most of the barrel is clean. BTW, the charge, paper wad, and the ball were removed before I got it. I know most of the original Lorenz rifles were bored to .54 caliber, but sometimes re-bored to .577 or .58 caliber. Since I cannot tell from the rusted and corroded end of the muzzle what the caliber actually is, I'm asking is there another way to establish the actual inside diameter of the barrel? Could I push a slug of something (lead? plastic? clay?) through the barrel from the breech end, and then mic the slug to tell me if it is .54 caliber or larger? If so, should I push the slug about half way down the barrel from the breech end, and then push it back out from the muzzle end so the slug isn't actually forced through the corrosion at the muzzle end? This is the same model and type of rifle my G-G-Grandfather was issued when he and his brothers first joined the 3rd Michigan Volunteer Infantry Regiment in May of 1861, and although it is only a wall-hanger and I would never fire it, it would be great if I could establish what caliber it actually is. Any suggestions you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
270
Location
Lockhart, Texas
#13
Philip, this may not be the right thread to ask this question, but I have an original Lorenz musket (the right lock plate is stamped 860), but I am unsure of the caliber. According to the man I got it from, he dug it up many years ago along side an old wagon trail near an old Butterfield stage station outside Tuscon, Arizona. He said it appeared that a sand bank had collapsed on top of the rifle many, many years ago leaving it in an almost vertical position with the tip of the barrel about 5 or 6 inches under the surface of the sand. It was cocked and loaded when he found it with the copper percussion cap still in place. Both the metal and the wood stock are in remarkably good condition with only some minor pitting here and there and the lock and trigger still function okay.

The problem is that the top few of inches of the barrel bore is pretty rusted and pitted where I assume infrequent Arizona rain water dribbled through the sand and into the end of the barrel over the years. The breech end of the barrel unscrews okay and most of the barrel is clean. BTW, the charge, paper wad, and the ball were removed before I got it. I know most of the original Lorenz rifles were bored to .54 caliber, but sometimes re-bored to .577 or .58 caliber. Since I cannot tell from the rusted and corroded end of the muzzle what the caliber actually is, I'm asking is there another way to establish the actual inside diameter of the barrel? Could I push a slug of something (lead? plastic? clay?) through the barrel from the breech end, and then mic the slug to tell me if it is .54 caliber or larger? If so, should I push the slug about half way down the barrel from the breech end, and then push it back out from the muzzle end so the slug isn't actually forced through the corrosion at the muzzle end? This is the same model and type of rifle my G-G-Grandfather was issued when he and his brothers first joined the 3rd Michigan Volunteer Infantry Regiment in May of 1861, and although it is only a wall-hanger and I would never fire it, it would be great if I could establish what caliber it actually is. Any suggestions you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Man, I wish I could answer that question, but I'm no gunsmith. I'm hoping someone knowledgeable like Craig Berry might reply. I'm amazed that the breech plug could be unscrewed after so long underground and the rust build-up. Me, I'd display the piece and tell anyone interested that it's a 54 caliber weapon.
 
Joined
Jul 17, 2015
Messages
147
Location
NC
#14
For more information try going over to the NSSA board (North South Skirmish Assoc).

http://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum

There's some folks over there that could probably help. BTW, for more fun than any reenactment, try skirmishing, we shoot live rounds and even shoot artillery for score.
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
270
Location
Lockhart, Texas
#15
I just visited the Pedersoli Rifles website and saw their new reproduction Austrian Lorenz included in their 2017 catalogue. Does anyone have info on the price tag and who will be selling them?
 

Craig L Barry

Sergeant Major
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
2,031
Location
Murfreesboro, TN
#18
Flintlocks, Etc (D Pedersoli dealer) says the retail price will be $1795. Makes the cosmetic issues with your Loyalist Arms seem like a decent trade-off for shooting blanks.
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
270
Location
Lockhart, Texas
#19
Thanks, Craig, for the price tag info. Whew. Loyalist Arms did start using a closer to the original, redesigned hammer on their new Lorenz's a few years back. Price is $40 for a replacement. I passed, but now maybe I'll get one and switch out my first one.
 
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
5,832
Location
Texas
#20
Why now? Why is Pedersoli just now coming out with a repro Lorenz? Would it not have been far better to have done this years ago when interest in the Civil War hobby was really strong?

Kevin Dally
 

Similar threads




(Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)
Top