Forrest "We Don't Have Enough Contempt for NBF"

[DRW]

So you do know a little something about the Klan, good for you. The first bunch were for the most part, vigilante and the second bunch mostly a homegrown version of the Nazis.

I would add that the 1st Klan-Regulators were a lot more pro-active and ambitious than mere vigilantes. They wanted to bring down elected state governments. As far as the 20s Klan, calling then Nazis is unfair. They were often closer to Rotary or Kiwanis clubs with "know nothing" xenophobia and racism thrown in. They collapsed as a national org with the Indiana scandals. (Btw, we had genuine fascists in the 30s with the German Bundists strong in Long Island and NJ. Look up the 1939 Madison Square Garden rally sometime for a shock.) The 3rd Klan that emerged during the Civil Rights Era is again something entirely different from its predecessors.

 

[BillO]

I would add that the 1st Klan-Regulators were a lot more pro-active and ambitious than mere vigilantes. They wanted to bring down elected state governments. As far as the 20s Klan, calling then Nazis is unfair. They were often closer to Rotary or Kiwanis clubs with "know nothing" xenophobia and racism thrown in. They collapsed as a national org with the Indiana scandals. (Btw, we had genuine fascists in the 30s with the German Bundists strong in Long Island and NJ. Look up the 1939 Madison Square Garden rally sometime for a shock.) The 3rd Klan that emerged during the Civil Rights Era is again something entirely different from its predecessors.

True but those 1st Klan members weren't allowed to vote in those state elections.

 

[Allie]

I would add that the 1st Klan-Regulators were a lot more pro-active and ambitious than mere vigilantes. They wanted to bring down elected state governments. As far as the 20s Klan, calling then Nazis is unfair. They were often closer to Rotary or Kiwanis clubs with "know nothing" xenophobia and racism thrown in. They collapsed as a national org with the Indiana scandals. (Btw, we had genuine fascists in the 30s with the German Bundists strong in Long Island and NJ. Look up the 1939 Madison Square Garden rally sometime for a shock.) The 3rd Klan that emerged during the Civil Rights Era is again something entirely different from its predecessors.

There were a whole lot of lynchings in the 1920's. The klan were not the Kiwanis.

 

[Rebforever]

There were a whole lot of lynchings in the 1920's. The klan were not the Kiwanis.

Where in the dickens did he fabricate that from?

 

[DRW]

There were a whole lot of lynchings in the 1920's. The klan were not the Kiwanis.

Of course there were lots of lynchings but they weren't necessarily connected to the 20s Stephenson KKK which had millions of dues paying members and major chapters in the North and West. This KKK was racist and xenophobic but also ran as a business, and was very politically involved with promoting its version of Protestant values (pro prohibition).

 

[Allie]

Where in the dickens did he fabricate that from?

It's true that for a lot of members it was primarily a political club. I wish I could remember who told me this - I want to say it was a family member, but it may have been someone on this forum. Some gentleman who was in the habit of joining many social clubs innocently went to a recruitment meeting for the klan. On coming home, he told his wife, "I don't think that's a very good club!"

 

[hrobalabama]

You are thinking of the second KKK of the 1920s which had formal chapters all across the country and was particularly strong in Indiana. This is a very different group from the Klan-type insurgency cells which popped up over the South during Reconstruction under a variety of names with little, if any, linkage to each other.

My, how many Klans' were there?

 

[Pat Young]

While on the subject of the Klan Was not Ohio, Indiana and Maryland, the one, two, three states with the highest klan membership?

During Forrest's time? No.

 

[Pat Young]

My, how many Klans' were there?

Usually thought of as three Klans.

 

[DRW]

My, how many Klans' were there?

Basically 3:
1. recon era which was prosecuted by the Grant admin in 1871-1872. This was the most violent.
2. The post Birth of a Nation KKK that got huge nationally, particularly in the North and west coast during the 20s but collapses after the Indiana scandals and the end of prohibition. This was the most organzied. When you think of the sheets and rituals, it comes from this edition. It was huge in Pennsylvania.
3. The civil rights era (50s and later) revival. Pretty much local cells under fed surveillance.

 

[Pat Young]

Basically 3:
1. recon era which was prosecuted by the Grant admin in 1871-1872. This was the most violent.
2. The post Birth of a Nation KKK that got huge nationally, particularly in the North and west coast during the 20s but collapses after the Indiana scandals and the end of prohibition. This was the most organzied. When you think of the sheets and rituals, it comes from this edition. It was huge in Pennsylvania.
3. The civil rights era (50s and later) revival. Pretty much local cells under fed surveillance.

The first Klan was based entirely in the former slave states and targeted blacks, Northerners, and Southern Unionists.

 

[Pat Young]

The Second Klan was essentially a nationwide effort to mobilize White Protestants against Catholics, immigrants, Jews, blacks, and labor unions.

 

[Pat Young]

The third Klan is the one we are blessed with today. This is, oddly, the most Confederate flag waving of the three Klans.

 

[DRW]

The Second Klan was essentially a nationwide effort to mobilize White Protestants against Catholics, immigrants, Jews, blacks, and labor unions.

It was also very much focused on promoting "traditional values." Very big on enforcing moral codes with references to religion. This was the age of joining fraternal organizations.

 

[Pat Young]

It was also very much focused on promoting "traditional values." Very big on enforcing moral codes with references to religion. This was the age of joining fraternal organizations.

Prohibition, protection of White Protestant women. Funny that it ended in drunken rape and murder.

 

[diane]

The klan is still around here. Up until the 70s they marched in 4th of July parades just like any other civic organization and contained some of the most prominent businessmen and professionals in the area. They actually were like any other club or such and didn't have to show their meanness because there were just about no minorities left around here to speak of! However, in recent years they've tried to slither out of their den because they see too many Mexicans living here - they haven't had much luck. They even tried to adopt a piece of highway to keep clean and nobody would even let them pick up trash. We have fine upstanding jail birds to do that, thank you! They even tried to connect with the **** group that recently showed up - neither one could stand the other. Yikes.

Forrest always blamed the violence of the klan he was in on other groups infiltrating it. It had a pretty good arrangement, so that it was - as was proven later - almost impossible to stamp out. Brownlow and other governors were actively trying to quell the post-war insurgents who were operating under other names. That was working and many of these became klansmen without leaving violence at the door. Forrest never claimed to be the Grand Wizard, or anything - so, as the original article mentions, he didn't claim to be the leader of the klan without actually being the leader. The Grand Wizard title was a code name for him. He was important to them, but likely not the acknowledged and elected leader - although Forrest, by nature, would take the lead in anything he was involved in.

 

[Booner]

My grandfather was a member of the clan (type II) in Missouri sometime in the 20's or early 30's. He died when I was 8 or 9 but I don't remember him being more or less racist than any other man from his generation.

He was from Andrew Co MO and my grandmother said he quit the clan after a hanging took place somewhere in NW Missouri that disgusted him.

Rgds,
Booner

 

[Al Murray]

It's true that for a lot of members it was primarily a political club. I wish I could remember who told me this - I want to say it was a family member, but it may have been someone on this forum. Some gentleman who was in the habit of joining many social clubs innocently went to a recruitment meeting for the klan. On coming home, he told his wife, "I don't think that's a very good club!"

That was me. My grandad joined because it was a lodge, or he thought it was. He went to a couple of meetings and a lighting. When grandma one evening found him building a fire in the yard she asked him what he was doing. he said he was burning the books and robes. Even she didn't get it at the time, and her family had been progressive Republicans who welcomed black folks at their table when some others would not. Anyway when she asked him why he was burning the stuff and he said "That's not a very good lodge." I would add that about that time they paraded through the streets of the town here and the local paper the day before had a proclamation welcoming "our brothers" the KKK to their parade.

My grandfather was a member of the clan (type II) in Missouri sometime in the 20's or early 30's. He died when I was 8 or 9 but I don't remember him being more or less racist than any other man from his generation.

"...from his generation" is the operative phrase. I think I posted a clipping on here last year about a KKK wedding in full costume in front of 20,000 people at Kanawha Ball Park in Charleston. Please don't misunderstand me as condoning the views of the second KKK which I don't, but for my grandfather (and probably yours) it was just another lodge. Mine was in any and every one he could get into.

 

[DRW]

That was me. My grandad joined because it was a lodge, or he thought it was. He went to a couple of meetings and a lighting. When grandma one evening found him building a fire in the yard she asked him what he was doing. he said he was burning the books and robes. Even she didn't get it at the time, and her family had been progressive Republicans who welcomed black folks at their table when some others would not. Anyway when she asked him why he was burning the stuff and he said "That's not a very good lodge." I would add that about that time they paraded through the streets of the town here and the local paper the day before had a proclamation welcoming "our brothers" the KKK to their parade.



"...from his generation" is the operative phrase. I think I posted a clipping on here last year about a KKK wedding in full costume in front of 20,000 people at Kanawha Ball Park in Charleston. Please don't misunderstand me as condoning the views of the second KKK which I don't, but for my grandfather (and probably yours) it was just another lodge. Mine was in any and every one he could get into.

This is exactly what I was talking about and why I used the Kiwanis/Rotary analogy. For many - maybe most - dues paying members, the 1920s Klan was fraternal lodge - just with hatred of foreigners, blacks and "the other" leavening the mix of picnics, parades, speeches and the occasional cross burning. For example, I gave a talk in Williamsport, PA a few years ago (yes, the Little League world series Williamsport) and the wonderful town museum had a display case with a pristine Klan robe and hood, emblems, insignias, plus Klan chapter (Klavern?) registration books and printed membership roles from the 1920s. My hosts appreciated the display as macabre but not a particularly horrific or shameful artifact of the town's past. There was a fantastic model train collection too.

 

[hrobalabama]

So if you "bashing the Klan," make sure you mention which group; 1, 2 or 3.