Union vs CSA Guerrilla

[TnFed]

Neither side in the ACW had "Concentration Camps" or "Protected Villages, where civilians were hearded in prison like or new communities guarded by troops or militias.
There was de facto population removal on both sides where civilians perceived as hostile had to move from a given location as in the Union order #11 in Missouri.
However nothing like the British Concentration Camps that the British had in the Boer War.
Colonel La Rue Harrison commander of the 1st Arkansas Union Cavalry did establish armed communes of Unionist families to ward off Confederate guerrillas and supply food to his Unionist troops. So Harrison established the concept of a protected village but not that composed of unwilling civilians has would be done in latter counterinsurgency conflicts.
Leftyhunter

Neither side in the ACW had "Concentration Camps" or "Protected Villages, where civilians were hearded in prison like or new communities guarded by troops or militias.
There was de facto population removal on both sides where civilians perceived as hostile had to move from a given location as in the Union order #11 in Missouri.
However nothing like the British Concentration Camps that the British had in the Boer War.
Colonel La Rue Harrison commander of the 1st Arkansas Union Cavalry did establish armed communes of Unionist families to ward off Confederate guerrillas and supply food to his Unionist troops. So Harrison established the concept of a protected village but not that composed of unwilling civilians has would be done in latter counterinsurgency conflicts.
Leftyhunter

It certainly put a lot of hurt on the Boer..Bantu also.

 

[leftyhunter]

It certainly put a lot of hurt on the Boer..Bantu also.

No doubt counterinsurgency is painful for all involved.
Leftyhunter

 

[Patrick H]

Again lets create a new thread on the morality of counterinsurgency policy. This thread does not address that issue.
Leftyhunter

The point of my post (containing a comment about my feelings toward the order) was to clarify that Ewing's General Order 11 profoundly impacted ALL citizens in the area--even the ones who could prove their loyalty were dispossessed of their property. It was in response to your post #326, which stated that only civilians perceived as hostile were affected. There is no need to start a thread arguing the morality of the order. Members here are deeply divided and will not change their opinions. Some of us have family connections or histories involving Ewing's order. I think that gives us an entirely different perspective from those who don't.

 

[leftyhunter]

The point of my post (containing a comment about my feelings toward the order) was to clarify that Ewing's General Order 11 profoundly impacted ALL citizens in the area--even the ones who could prove their loyalty were dispossessed of their property.

S
We have debated Order #11 in my previous thread " the Moral clarity of the Lawrence Massacre".
Now we do have some new members who may be interested in Union counterinsurgency policy and issues of morality affecting such a policy.
I am working out details with the mods to have a thread specifically devoted to issues of morality relating to Civil War counterinsurgency.
I do have a thread in the moderated thread forum " Compare and Contrast the American Civil War to the Vietnam War of 1957 to 1975". You and others are welcome to compare Order#11 to remarkably similar policies supported by the U.S. govt 100 plus years latter.
Leftyhunter

 

[CSA Today]

"Block houses" specifically refers to small fortified positions that protected critical positions especially rail road bridges. Block houses could repel groups of guerrillas and were imperious to small arms fire . They could be overcome by artillery.
Leftyhunter

Don't you mean impervious to small arms fire?

 

[leftyhunter]

Don't you mean impervious to small arms fire?

Thanks buddy ;I will make sure that you and others use correct spelling and punctuation at all times.
Leftyhunter

 

[CSA Today]

Thanks buddy ;I will make sure that you and others use correct spelling and punctuation at all times.
Leftyhunter

You are welcome.

 

[TnFed]

You are welcome.

Lol. I know I am guilty of the same thing. It's not always my fault. This "smart phone" seems to put words down before I am through. Then I don't check good enough...will try to do a little better.

 

[CSA Today]

Lol. I know I am guilty of the same thing. It's not always my fault. This "smart phone" seems to put words down before I am through. Then I don't check good enough...will try to do a little better.

You are fine, I make mistakes too, it was just that I had momentary flashes of "imperious" defenders in a blockhouse and couldn't resist a reply.

 

[Crimea Vet]

Interesting! I knew I was sure the one mentioned by Grant targeted Jews, as a result of his anger towards Forrest. Great book by Jonathan Sarna on this segment.

Thanks for highlighting this!

Great research topic as to scope and scale of these General Orders.

What exactly was the connection

 

[Crimea Vet]

Interesting! I knew I was sure the one mentioned by Grant targeted Jews, as a result of his anger towards Forrest. Great book by Jonathan Sarna on this segment.

Thanks for highlighting this!

Great research topic as to scope and scale of these General Orders.

Start again!
What exactly was the connection between Grant targeting Jews and Forrest?

 

[Crimea Vet]

Avast that last question....I have found it!

 

[TnFed]

You are fine, I make mistakes too, it was just that I had momentary flashes of "imperious" defenders in a blockhouse and couldn't resist a reply.

Thanks! I'm no expert on secession , tariffs and slavery. I do know a little about partisan warfare on the east Tn and western NC border. I am old enough that my dad could remember vets from the war when he was very young . My grandfather knew many very well. Only wished I had ask more questions when he would talk on the front porch at night.

 

[TnFed]

Avast that last question....I have found it!

Crimea..if you are interested in partisan or insurgent warfare in the war , let me recommend...Homegrown Yankees, by James Baggett, Bushwhackers by William Trotter..and Tennessee's Radical Army by Ben Severance

PS
...I learn all my British Military history by reading the Flashman novels...lol.

 

[leftyhunter]

For reference to the original question I think you should make a distinction between "Guerilla" and "Partisan."

I did address that earlier on. Partisans operate from a secure base and raid enemy territory. Guerrillas tend to blocals but regardless stay mostly in a given area at least during the spring and summer. Guerrillas may when cover and food are sparse move out of a given area i.e. Quantrill's men towards the fall when the foliage was sparse would take sanctuary in Sherman, Texas.
Leftyhunter

 

[TnFed]

You know it is such a dicey area between partisan and guerrilla warfare. Goldman Bryson, Timothy Lyons and Dave Beatty on the Union side all were all enrolled as legitimate combatants in the Union army at one time or another..though I think Beatty was paid as a scout. The same is true of John Gatewood, John Kirkland and Champ Ferguson on the Confederate side. Tough hombres for a fact.

Sgt. York who's ancestors were Tn Unionist said this .."I guess there ain't a cabin in these here mountains..there ain't a road or a valley or a hillside that ain't seen blood and suffering and death as a result of the civil war. The citizens first formed these Bushwackers to protect themselves against the raids and foraging expeditions of the soldiers of both armies..but as the war went on and things became looser and looser and hatred flared out worse and worser,, like most undisciplined units, they kinda broke down and done just as they liked. The more patriotic ones were killed off or left....and the bullies and the bedeviled ones became more powerful." Pretty well said.

 

[East Tennessee Roots]

You know it is such a dicey area between partisan and guerrilla warfare. Goldman Bryson, Timothy Lyons and Dave Beatty on the Union side all were all enrolled as legitimate combatants in the Union army at one time or another..though I think Beatty was paid as a scout. The same is true of John Gatewood, John Kirkland and Champ Ferguson on the Confederate side. Tough hombres for a fact.

Sgt. York who's ancestors were Tn Unionist said this .."I guess there ain't a cabin in these here mountains..there ain't a road or a valley or a hillside that ain't seen blood and suffering and death as a result of the civil war. The citizens first formed these Bushwackers to protect themselves against the raids and foraging expeditions of the soldiers of both armies..but as the war went on and things became looser and looser and hatred flared out worse and worser,, like most undisciplined units, they kinda broke down and done just as they liked. The more patriotic ones were killed off or left....and the bullies and the bedeviled ones became more powerful." Pretty well said.

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/re...s-in-the-civil-war.129343/page-7#post-1765752

 

[TnFed]

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/re...s-in-the-civil-war.129343/page-7#post-1765752

Thanks Glenn!! Alvin York also had some kin that rode with Tinker Dave Beatty
One was I believe Michael York and I don't remember the other York boy's name offhand.

 

[Chalmers' Division]

Start again!
What exactly was the connection between Grant targeting Jews and Forrest?

Forrest was causing problems with cutting

Start again!
What exactly was the connection between Grant targeting Jews and Forrest?

Forrest cut communication lines, etc. Got under Grants skin generally. Grant had to push his plans for moving on Vicksburg back as a result

 

[TnFed]

Thanks Glenn!! Alvin York also had some kin that rode with Tinker Dave Beatty
One was I believe Michael York and I don't remember the other York boy's name offhand.

It was Mitchell and George York.