Discussion Union vs CSA Guerrilla

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Biscuit

Private
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Jan 8, 2018
Location
NH
So yesterday I discovered that Jesse James rode alongside "Bloody Bill" Anderson during the war. Did James continue guerrilla activity after Anderson's death? I know that he became a notable outlaw later in life, but don't know much, if anything, about his time serving the Confederacy.
 

leftyhunter

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
los angeles ca
So yesterday I discovered that Jesse James rode alongside "Bloody Bill" Anderson during the war. Did James continue guerrilla activity after Anderson's death? I know that he became a notable outlaw later in life, but don't know much, if anything, about his time serving the Confederacy.
Yes absolutely. James and his older brother Frank fought to the very end. A great book on the James boys is " Jesse James Last Rebel of the Civil War " T.J. Stiles Vintage Library Press.
Leftyhunter
Edited by Moderator.
 

WJC

Major General
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Answered the Call for Reinforcements
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***Posted as Moderator***
Please resist the temptation to get into a 'Yeah, my guys were bad, but your's were worse' match. Stay on topic, stick to the facts and respect the views of others. Don't use this thread- or any other- for personal conversations: use the "Conversations" option.
 
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leftyhunter

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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Location
los angeles ca
@2TN_Inf_USA ,
You might enjoy this thread. It is not about guerrilla warfare exclusive to one state but some of the posts deal with Union vs Confederate counter guerrilla operations " and after Missouri Tennessee had the most Union regiments assigned to counterinsurgency. Tennessee is somewhat unique in that both sides were tied down in counterinsurgency operations. Not that a few other states such has,Arkansas were not as.well.
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
los angeles ca
If you're interested check out this link starting with "CHAPTER XII. War Times and Afterwards." Also search the book for "James (Jim) Hartley, Kirk, and Blalock, for even more insight. It will give you an excellent look into the subject from first hand accounts of people who lived it. As I've stated before. This area of NC was a hornets nest during that time in history due to the situation in TN, Eastern NC, and the fact that every other person here had loyalties to one side or the other and by 64 the Unionist, deserted Union and Confederate guerrilla's had become very brave due to the Northern army gaining the upper hand in the war by that time and Burnside's occupation of Knoxville TN, along with the fact that other than a few homeguard, Vances soldiers were the only regular Confederate unit ordered to this area between central TN and central NC.

https://archive.org/stream/historyofwataug00arth/historyofwataug00arth_djvu.txt
@Bruce Vail
This link might have good info on the home guards of North Carolina.
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
los angeles ca
I am going to have to respectfully disagre with the notion that Unionist guerrilla warfare was all that similar to Scottish clan fighting. It appera to be far better organized on the whole and many of the guerrillas where not related by blood.
From the book "Junius and Alberts adventures in the Confederacya Civil War odyssey by Peter Carlson publicaffairs.com p.170-171
"Deserters now leave the army with arms and ammunition in hand"per a report by george W. Lay a conscription agent in western Nc."Arriving in their selected localities of refuge, they organize in bands variously estimated at from 50 up to hundred at various points.. In Wilkies County they are organized,drilling regularly and entrenched in a camp up to the number of 500". "These men are not only determined to kill in avoiding apprehension)having put to death yet another of our enrolling officers) but their esprit de corpse extends to revenge killing as well." That does not sound like a family dispute more like a group of determined guerrilla fighter.
Leftyhunter
@Bruce Vail
Here is a source concerning tbe opposition that the North Carolina Home Guards faced.
Leftyhunter
 
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leftyhunter

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
los angeles ca
Orders. FIRST BRIGADE, NORTH CAROLINA Home GUARDS,
Mars Hill College, Madison County, N. C., April 12, 1864.
Governor Z. B. VANCE:
A dispatch reached me last night that a band of tories, said to be
headed by Montreval Ray, numbering about seventy-five men came
into Burnsville, Yancey County, on Sunday night last, the 10th instant,
surprised the guard, broke open the magazine, and took all the arms
and ammunition; broke open Bradlys store and carried off the con-
tents; attacked Captain Lyons, the local enrolling officer, in his room,
shot him in the arm slightly, but accidentally he made his escape.
They carried off all the guns they could carry; the balance they broke.
They took, I suppose, about 100 State guns. No one else wounded.
They also took off the bacon brought in by my commissary about 500
pounds. On the day before about fifty women assembled together, of
said county, and marched in a body to a store-house near David Prof-
fitts and pressed about sixty bushels of Government wheat and carried
it off. I very much regret the loss of the arms. On Monday previous
to the robbery I wrote to one of the captains in that county and to the
ordnance officer to either remove the guns and ammunition or see that a
sufficient guard was placed there to protect them. It seems that neither
was done. I also urged on the citizens to lay to a helping hand in this
hour of danger, but all done no good. The county is gone up. It has
got to be impossible to get any man out there unless he is dragged out,
with but very few exceptions. There was but a small guard there, and
the citizens all ran on the first approach of the tories. I have 100 men
at this place to guard against Kirk, of Laurel, and cannot reduce the
force, and to call out any more home guards at this time is only certain
destruction to the country eventually.
In fact, it seems to me that
there is a determination of the people in the country generally to do no
more service in the cause.
Swarms of men liable to conscription are gone to the tories or to the
Yankeessome men that you would have no idea of while many
others are fleeing east of the Blue Ridge for refuge. John S. McElroy
and all the cavalry, J. W. Anderson and many others, are gone to Burke
for refuge. This discourages those who are left behind, and on the
back of that conscription [is] now going on, and a very tyrannical course
pursued by the officers charged with the business, and men conscribe

Page 327

Cw& r. LXV.] CORRESPONDENCE, ETC.CONFEDERATE. 327


and cleaned out as raked with a fine-toothed comb, and if any are left
if they are called upon to do a little home-guard service, they at once
apply for a writ of habeas corpus and get off. Some three or four cases
[have] been tried by Judge Read the last two weeks and the men
released. What are we to do? There are no Confederate troops
scarcely in the western district of North Carolina. Longstreet is said
to have reft Tennessee. This emboldens the tories, and they are now
largely recruited by conscript renegades and very soon it is possible our
country may be full of Yankees. Give me your advice and orders. I
have been doing as I thought the best I could under all circumstances.
How far you may consider me culpable for the loss of the Yancey guns,
& c., I cannot say. I am sorry I did not act more promptly in their
removal, but I thought when the citizens were warned of their danger,
as I had warne(l them and told them it was impossible for me to send
them any force, that they would at once rally to their own defense and
use the guns against their foes, but alas, I was sadly mistaken; if I had
not believed that I would have brought the arms and ammunition to
these headquarters. If something is not done immediately for this
country we will all be ruined, for the home guards now will not do to
depend on. I have written you several times on subjects of importance
to me, and received no answer. I know your time is valuable to you
and that you are pressed to death with business, but some instructions
from you would be of great benefit to me and some encouragement to
our citizens. Do let me hear from you at once.
Very respectfully, your obedient servant,
J. W. McELROY,
@Bruce Vail ,
Here is an OR about the Home Guards of Nc.
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
los angeles ca
My senior moment, it was William R. Trotter that included a chapter “The Fall of Fort Hamby" in his Bushwhackers: The Civil War in Western North Carolina, The Mountains not Robert M. Sandow who wrote about Pennsylvania in his Deserter Country, Civil War Opposition in the Pennsylvania Appalachians.
@Bruce Vail
More info on Ft.Hamby
Leftyhunter
 
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leftyhunter

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
los angeles ca
Has a general rule Unionist guerrillas where poorer then CSA guerrillas.
"A profile of about one hundred Unionist and secessionist guerrillas reveals important similarities. Partisans on both sides tended to be in their late thirties ,though Unionists were slightly younger. The majority of both camps were married, had two or more children, and owned either a farm or business But Unionist and secessionist guerrillas were divided by occupation and wealth. The majority of Unionists were small farmers , but artisans and farm laborers were well represented. Conversely ,almost all Confederate bushwackers who could be clearly identified were farmers with substantial
land holdings. Their average amount of real property was three times that of loyalists and their average personal property holdings were twice as great. The sample is small enough that these conclusions should be used with cation, but they do suggest that Confederate partisans were more likely to come from the ranks of the wealthy.
"War at every Door Partisan Politics & guerrilla warfare in East Tennessee 1860-1869 Noel Fisher The University of North Carolina Press p.130
Leftyhunter
@Bruce Vail ,3
The socio-economic differences between Unionist guerrillas and those who joined the Home Guards in East Tennessee should hold true in North Carolina.
Leftyhunter
 
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TnFed

First Sergeant
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
@Bruce Vail
More info on Ft.Hamby
Leftyhunter
Fort Hamby was at the start, the biggest whorehouse in Wilkes County. Wade and his men operated out of it boldly unlike most bushwhackers who hid in the bush. His associate, Simmons was there occasionally. Ex-Confderates finaly busted up Wades men and Federal soldiers and Ex-Confderates working together put paid to Simmonds. Both very dangerous hombres.
 
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TnFed

First Sergeant
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Jun 18, 2018

leftyhunter

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
los angeles ca
Fort Hamby was at the start, the biggest whorehouse in Wilkes County. Wade and his men operated out of it boldly unlike most bushwhackers who hid in the bush. His associate, Simmons was there occasionally. Ex-Confderates finaly busted up Wades men and Federal soldiers and Ex-Confderates working together put paid to Simmonds. Both very dangerous hombres.
I did not know that.
Leftyhunter
 
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TnFed

First Sergeant
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Jun 18, 2018
I remember that the Kirkland bands women danced in Captain Gary's boots. Later Captain Timon Lyons, know to local Confederates , affectionatly,
as a drunken, one-eye Irishman ..lol..would kill Kirkland's brother Jesse while on a raid in Graham County NC.
 
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