Impressions Thoughts on dismounted cavalry?

[Story]

These guys seem to be a bit too close to each other.

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[3rdTennCo.C]

Does anyone by chance have footage of these poor interpretations of cavalrymen?

 

[James N.]

One suggestion for explaining this to the crowd would be to have one legitimate horseholder with four horses (perhaps the entire herd present at any given event) within the crowd's line-of-sight.

The announcer would then highlight the above tactical facts for the crowd, then direct their attention to the skirmish line of dismounted cavalry.

Just a thought.

it's hard to tell from this photo, but that's basically what's going on in this Gettysburg, 1981, reenactment. Much the same was done on a larger scale in 1988 and 1998.

 

[3rdTennCo.C]

Makes sense but the horses we do have we use, but I get what you mean, we are dismounts only because we dont have horses. Also that is still a cool pic!

 

[James N.]

Wasnt there were actual dismounted cavalry units? Texas in particular I think the majority enlisted as cavalry and as the war went on regts would be dismounted to fill the need for infantry, they would remain cavalry in name but have dismounted added. such as the 10th Texas

I always wondered how it worked, as I thought CSA cavalry had provided their own mounts?

From the texas handbook online on the 10th Texas Cavalry

"For the first few months of the war the Tenth Texas served west of the Mississippi River in Texas, Arkansas, and Louisiana as part of the Department of Texas. In April 1862 the unit was dismounted and sent east of the Mississippi River where it served for the remainder of the war. At this time, the unit totaled 565 effectives in the field."

For clarity that sentence should read "In April 1862 the unit was dismounted and sent east of the Mississippi River where it served for the remainder of the war as infantry." Once a trooper's horse was dead or otherwise unserviceable he sometimes had permission to return home - not always an easy or practical thing to do! - and find another one; otherwise, he was "doomed" to life as an infantryman!

 

[Story]

Makes sense but the horses we do have we use, but I get what you mean, we are dismounts only because we dont have horses. Also that is still a cool pic!

While my post was meant for reenactments in general, in your specific case it would be [Co C 3rd TN CAV (Dismounted) ] + [four horses + 1 or more mounted reenactor (wo)men from another outfit] = display for public.

Depending on where the horses are located relative to the audience and more importantly, the firing, the horsehandler doesn't even need to be a reenactor. Just dress him up appropriately, and picket the horses unobtrusively.

 

[archieclement]

For clarity that sentence should read "In April 1862 the unit was dismounted and sent east of the Mississippi River where it served for the remainder of the war as infantry." Once a trooper's horse was dead or otherwise unserviceable he sometimes had permission to return home - not always an easy or practical thing to do! - and find another one; otherwise, he was "doomed" to life as an infantryman!

Do you know how it worked? At least the 10th and 24th texas were dismounted, it notes under much protest of the 24th, how could switch cav to inf, when the men owned the horses?

 

[Lampasas Bill]

My understanding is that when Confederate cavalry were permanently dismounted and converted to Infantry their personal horses were given an appraisal value and then purchased by the government, which credited the amount to each individual soldier.

 

[archieclement]

My understanding is that when Confederate cavalry were permanently dismounted and converted to Infantry their personal horses were given an appraisal value and then purchased by the government, which credited the amount to each individual soldier.

I assumed something similitary would have to taken place.

Guess what I'm wondering is under what basis did lose the right to keep personal property. How could one be required to sell what they owned...

It's like compensated emancipation of horses.......

 

[Lampasas Bill]

The impressment law of March 26, 1863 allowed the government to do that.

 

[archieclement]

The impressment law of March 26, 1863 allowed the government to do that.

Both Texas cavary regt were dismounted in 1862

 

[DixieRifles]

My understanding is that when Confederate cavalry were permanently dismounted and converted to Infantry their personal horses were given an appraisal value and then purchased by the government, which credited the amount to each individual soldier.

I have seen documents in the service records (Fold3) for individual soldiers. I wish I knew where one was so I could post it. I also found a lot of forms that docked Union troopers for the loss a Gov't Issue canteen, a curry comb etc.

 

[DixieRifles]

Plenty have chimed in on what Confederate Cavalry looked like; they looked like infantry. Maybe that's not the answer you want, but it's the correct answer.

@3rdTennCo.C
There is a small booklet about the Battle of Fort Pillow that has sketches in it. I have never found out who drew the sketches and when: 1950 or 1880?
Here is one showing Confederate cavalry preparing to assault the fort.

Also, I know you are interested in the 3rd Tennessee Cavalry--- Old Forrest's.
Here is an introduction about the regiment from "Tennesseans in the Civil War". The first line was a complex sentence which I'm displaying as bullet points.

3rd (Forrest's Old) Tennessee Cavalry Regiment
aka-- 18th Battalion, 26th Battalion, Balch's Battalion and McDonald's Battalion

• Organized as a battalion at Memphis, October 1861;
• increased to regiment, January 1862;
• divided into two battalions, April 1862;
• four Alabama companies% transferred to the 4th (Russell's) Alabama Cavalry Regiment in November 1862;
• 18th Battalion first known as Balch's Battalion;
• then as McDonald's Battalion;
• finally as 26th Battalion;
• reorganized as regiment latter part of 1864;
• consolidated with 12th Tennessee Cavalry Regiment in February 1865;
• surrendered and paroled at Gainesville, Alabama May 1865.

% Note that some companies were from states other than Tennessee. One one of my searches, I found an Arkansas company that was listed as having been a company in Forrest's Regiment---as pointed out in this next sentence.

This regiment had a very complex history, some 20 or 25 companies being at one time or another attached to it, with numerous changes in company letters.

COMMANDERS

Battalion Organization
Lieu-Colonel Nathan B. Forrest

First Regimental Organization
Colonel Nathan B. Forrest

18th Battalion
Major (later Lt-Col) R. M. Balch

McDonald's Battalion
Lieut-Colonel J. M. Crews
Major Charles McDonald

26th Battalion
Lieut-Colonel David C. Kelley

Reorganized Regiment
Colonel David C. Kelley

Many of the Confederate cavalry regiments go through reorganizations and name changes. Forrest's Cavalry Regiment and Forrest's Escort have one of the most complex. I have another source that Forrest's Escort was also known as McDonald's Cavalry and also as Jackson's Company. It almost needs a Family Tree diagram to understand its structure and history.

Here is an example. Some of the Index cards in the NARA files have a brief history of the company. I don't always believe these short history ---not the use of the word "appears"--- but they deserve some research. Here is one for an Alabama cavalry.

 

[7thWisconsin]

I guess that is what I am saying---the late war mounted infantry should not look much different than infantry except for backpacks. I'm still trying to determine what "uniform" would be worn by a Mississippi cavalryman.

This is what I usually see at re-enactments that screams "Cavalry!"---- a lot of Yellow on the uniform and Crossed sabers badges.

View attachment 322098

I hate to go back to these guys; it's like trying to look away from a wreck. Does that corporal have a silkscreened haversack?

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

A 300 pound dismounted Confederate cavalryman participating in Pickett's Charge with a carbine, 6 revolvers, a saber, a large Bowie knife and two smaller throwing knives in his boots. I can see why he tied his horse some where and attacked on foot as the poor horse would have had difficulties caring him

While I understand not all dismounted cavalry reenactors fit that description, you are correct.

The really bad ones have ruined it for the others.

 

[3rdTennCo.C]

@DixieRifles That info looks great an I will do more looking into Tennesseans of the Civil War.

 

[thomas aagaard]

Guess what I'm wondering is under what basis did lose the right to keep personal property. How could one be required to sell what they owned...
It's like compensated emancipation of horses.......

The idea that the state can force a person to sell for the common good of the state can be found in most democracies.
Sometimes the need of the many outweigh the need of the one.
The idea that the citizen have a duty to defend the state is just a variation of this idea.
And a tax is the same.

The CSA army confiscated revolvers from anyone who had "to many" in the same way. Paid the soldier for it and issued it to a soldier who had none.
And food and other supplies where "taxed" and shipped to the army.

 

[DixieRifles]

From what i had read some wheres that if a cavalry person lost their horse for whatever reason then they become dismounts. but they have something like 30 days to find another horse or they become infantry.

I know this conversation has gone from discussing what happens when a cavalryman lost his horse and what did the Army do with the horses if the unit was designed as a dismounted unit.

Here is one quote I found that might shed light as to what duties a trooper would be assigned to do while if he lost his horse.
Again this comes from Hancock's Diary as it is about Tennessee Confederate cavalry.

I also recall an account of an INFANTRY unit that became mounted for a short period of time. Once they arrived at their new position, they were ordered to return their mounts. I will have to ponder that one for awhile.

 

[James N.]

I know this conversation has gone from discussing what happens when a cavalryman lost his horse and what did the Army do with the horses if the unit was designed as a dismounted unit.

Here is one quote I found that might shed light as to what duties a trooper would be assigned to do while if he lost his horse.
Again this comes from Hancock's Diary as it is about Tennessee Confederate cavalry.

View attachment 322542



I also recall an account of an INFANTRY unit that became mounted for a short period of time. Once they arrived at their new position, they were ordered to return their mounts. I will have to ponder that one for awhile.

Company Q also became a euphemism for any troops unable to participate naturally, including and especially those in the guardhouse or otherwise confined!

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

My disdain for "Dismounted Cavalry" reenactors has been noted elsewhere, along with the seething hatred of many of them due to getting shot in the face by two of them once upon a time. Temporary blindness is terrifying experience I don't want to repeat...

That being said the vast majority of Dismounts, and mounted Cavalry really do a terrible job on their impressions. For starters, one memoir of a real Confederate dismounted cavalry regiments, "Fourteen Hundred and Ninety one Days in the Confederate Army" by W.W. Heartsill refutes most impressions, especially here west of the Mississippi with the sentence, "You couldn't tell us apart from the infantry." and the yahoos who go around saying they're horses are behind the lines, or in the trees are also easily refuted.

For that I suggest reading this well thought out and researched article by Ken Knopp at his website (a great site for learning about Confederate cavalry).

Western Cavalry Equipped as Infantry???

** This was originally a post on the Authentic Campaigner (Cavalry Discussion) Forum about 2005 then developed into a full length article for the Camp Chase published in the June 2009 edition. …

confederatesaddles.com

Going by the records, its obvious most Confederate Cavalrymen, whether mounted, or dismounting during a battle, shouldn't look so much like a Union Cavalryman except in gray, or butternut, or even like Josey Wales or a Bushwhacker, but just like their foot pounding brothers in the infantry except on a horse.

I realize some dismounted fellows are great people who try to do right. There's one small outfit near me in Longview TX who does an awesome dismounted Union Cavalry impression, and look regulation. I've even toyed with the idea of forming a new Dismounted Cav. unit that would do it right and look no different from the infantry.

But the sad fact is too many idiots wanting to be John Wayne, or Wyatt Earp at the OK Corral, or just post war cowboys in general have ruined it. They've just completely disgraced themselves and added a stigma to it. They have no desire to even know how our ancestors looked or did things, or have even discipline in their ranks. They disgust me.

Heck somewhere on my computer I have a video I shot of a reenactment years ago where I filmed while dead, with the typical eye-rolling truce to end an event with a rather portly dismounted cav. officer giving the order at the end to his "troopers" to "De-cap all weapons!" (Disclaimer I hold no ill will to any reenactor who has a weight problem, I'm guilty myself, some folks can't help it.)