The Peninsula The Peninsula

[Bruce Vail]

Boy didn't I open up a can a worms ! Lol I think I've made my decision on which book, but I wanna thank everyone for their input. Some very interesting conversations going on here !

This is teeny, tiny can of worms by normal CWT standards. Just wait to you start asking questions about US Grant!

 

[Drew]

For a view by a European observer, try the Comte de Paris' History of the Civil War in America, Vol. II, Chapter 1 -- it's just a bit more than 100 pages, but a well written account by a professional who was there: https://ia800201.us.archive.org/24/items/historyofcivilwa02pari/historyofcivilwa02pari.pdf

Wow, thanks for posting this. It may take a day or two to get through it but there's nothing better than a third party eyewitness account.

 

[Rebelsoul]

This is teeny, tiny can of worms by normal CWT standards. Just wait to you start asking questions about US Grant!

Ain't gonna happen, not this Rebel boys favorite person ! Bwaaahahahaha. ....

 

[67th Tigers]

In answer to the OP, there isn't any one good book on the Peninsula from either viewpoint. I will give my opinion on the best from the CS PoV, bearing in mind these are top down "decision maker" books:

1. April-May

Newton's Joseph E. Johnston and the Defence of Richmond

I lost my copy on a skiing holiday in Finland, but now have a copy of Newton's Ph.D. thesis (which the book is). From the PoV of what was going on in the rebel high command and what they were thinking, this is the best work. It is not a tactical work. Newton did a good book on Seven Pines, complete with early 1990's computer drawn maps.

2. June-July

Harsh's Confederate Tide Rising is superb, and basically goes from Johnston's wounding until the Battle of Chantilly. The best tactical work on the Seven Days I mentioned as Burton.

 

[Jimklag]

I have a question for @67th Tigers and @Saphroneth . I have been trying to find the number of ships used to transport McClellan's forces from the Potomac to Fortress Monroe. Do either of you two Peninsula gurus have that number? How many were armed and how many were unarmed transports? Thanks,

Jim

 

[Saphroneth]

I have a question for @67th Tigers and @Saphroneth . I have been trying to find the number of ships used to transport McClellan's forces from the Potomac to Fortress Monroe. Do either of you two Peninsula gurus have that number? How many were armed and how many were unarmed transports? Thanks,

My understanding on the armed vs. unarmed state is that the vast majority of them were unarmed. Armed vessels were too much of a premium on the blockade and this was an "administrative" transfer rather than an assault landing. The 1st Corps transports might be different as they were intended to make an assault landing.

I don't have any data on the numbers, though, except that the transfer to Monroe (which did not involve any 1st Corps transports) took place over a long period of time, because there wasn't enough transport to lift more than at most one division at once.

 

[Jimklag]

My understanding on the armed vs. unarmed state is that the vast majority of them were unarmed. Armed vessels were too much of a premium on the blockade and this was an "administrative" transfer rather than an assault landing. The 1st Corps transports might be different as they were intended to make an assault landing.

I don't have any data on the numbers, though, except that the transfer to Monroe (which did not involve any 1st Corps transports) took place over a long period of time, because there wasn't enough transport to lift more than at most one division at once.

Thanks. I've been re-reading some of the articles in Battles and Leaders and was curious about the Navy's role. Can you recommend a book on the Peninsula campaign that would give more detail on the Navy's transport mission?

 

[Saphroneth]

I believe there's a book on combined ops in the ACW that has a lot of work about the combined-ops side of things, as well it would!

Ah, here it is.
Combined Operations in the Civil War - Rowena Reed.

 

[Jimklag]

I believe there's a book on combined ops in the ACW that has a lot of work about the combined-ops side of things, as well it would!

Ah, here it is.
Combined Operations in the Civil War - Rowena Reed.

Thanks.

 

[67th Tigers]

I have a question for @67th Tigers and @Saphroneth . I have been trying to find the number of ships used to transport McClellan's forces from the Potomac to Fortress Monroe. Do either of you two Peninsula gurus have that number? How many were armed and how many were unarmed transports? Thanks,

Jim

It's an interesting question. The transports were unarmed, and hired less than six weeks before the movement.

The ships used were hired by John Tucker, and he supplied a list when a scandal broke regarding misappropriation of funds. The list does not include ships hired by anyone else (the minority used). For example, I know which ships 6 regiments of Richardson's Division went on, and two went on the large mail steamer Ocean Queen, which is not on the list. This is because the Ocean Queen was hired by the Sanitary Commission as a hospital ship, and pressed into one run as a trooper.

Irish Brigade - 2 regiments (69th NY and another) were transported in the large Ocean Queen, and the remaining one in the Columbia.

Howard's Brigade - The large Spaulding carried the 81st Pa and 61st NY. The 5th NH was split across two ships; the Donaldson (6 coys) and Croton (4 coys and the brigade baggage). The 64th NY did not go in the same convoy.

At least one large steamer on the list was not used as a transport, but transferred to the USN on 24th March to become a warship.

The steamers used to carry men ranged from some really large mail steamers, which could carry two regiments, down to small steamers which could carry half a regiment.

The real problem was horses. Schooners were used to transport horses, and a typical one carried ca. 40 horses or other animals. Consider a battery of artillery alone needs 3 schooners for her horses (and another few for her vehicles), or a cavalry regiment needs ca. 20 just for the horses.

As a note, only the first six divisions landed near Ft Monroe. Richardson's and Hooker's divisions landed at Ship Point after the army had reached the Warwick Line. The engineers built a new facility at Wormley's Creek during operations much closer to Yorktown which allowed easy supply of the army (even Ship Point was far enough away that supply was difficult), and that was where Franklin's division disembarked.

 

[Jimklag]

It's an interesting question. The transports were unarmed, and hired less than six weeks before the movement.

The ships used were hired by John Tucker, and he supplied a list when a scandal broke regarding misappropriation of funds. The list does not include ships hired by anyone else (the minority used). For example, I know which ships 6 regiments of Richardson's Division went on, and two went on the large mail steamer Ocean Queen, which is not on the list. This is because the Ocean Queen was hired by the Sanitary Commission as a hospital ship, and pressed into one run as a trooper.

Irish Brigade - 2 regiments (69th NY and another) were transported in the large Ocean Queen, and the remaining one in the Columbia.

Howard's Brigade - The large Spaulding carried the 81st Pa and 61st NY. The 5th NH was split across two ships; the Donaldson (6 coys) and Croton (4 coys and the brigade baggage). The 64th NY did not go in the same convoy.

At least one large steamer on the list was not used as a transport, but transferred to the USN on 24th March to become a warship.

The steamers used to carry men ranged from some really large mail steamers, which could carry two regiments, down to small steamers which could carry half a regiment.

The real problem was horses. Schooners were used to transport horses, and a typical one carried ca. 40 horses or other animals. Consider a battery of artillery alone needs 3 schooners for her horses (and another few for her vehicles), or a cavalry regiment needs ca. 20 just for the horses.

As a note, only the first six divisions landed near Ft Monroe. Richardson's and Hooker's divisions landed at Ship Point after the army had reached the Warwick Line. The engineers built a new facility at Wormley's Creek during operations much closer to Yorktown which allowed easy supply of the army (even Ship Point was far enough away that supply was difficult), and that was where Franklin's division disembarked.

Wow! Thank you, sir. I knew I'd asked the right guys.

 

[USS ALASKA]

Thanks. I've been re-reading some of the articles in Battles and Leaders and was curious about the Navy's role. Can you recommend a book on the Peninsula campaign that would give more detail on the Navy's transport mission?

Sir, there are some papers here that cover the topic...

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/civil-war-joint-operations-papers.150908/

Joint operations in the James River Basin, 1862-1865

Evolution of joint operations during the Civil War

...each with a Bibliography...
559

HTHs,
USS ALASKA

 

[Jimklag]

Sir, there are some papers here that cover the topic...

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/civil-war-joint-operations-papers.150908/

Joint operations in the James River Basin, 1862-1865

Evolution of joint operations during the Civil War

...each with a Bibliography...
559

HTHs,
USS ALASKA

Thanks, Alaska.

 

[cash]

Why is it that only people who have a certain viewpoint on the war are the ones asking for recommendations that are biased toward their "side?" Why not just ask for the most accurate or complete work? One would think if the goal is understanding, that would be the question. It makes one think the goal is not understanding but rather to make oneself feel good and lead cheers.

 

[Jimklag]

Why is it that only people who have a certain viewpoint on the war are the ones asking for recommendations that are biased toward their "side?" Why not just ask for the most accurate or complete work? One would think if the goal is understanding, that would be the question. It makes one think the goal is not understanding but rather to make oneself feel good and lead cheers.

Huh? I asked for recommendations on the US Navy's transport operation in the Peninsula campaign. What bias does that demonstrate? Besides, if I wish to ask for the records of Martian involvement in the Peninsula campaign, it is not soliciting snide comments and is, if I may say nun o yo bidness.

 

[cash]

Huh? I asked for recommendations on the US Navy's transport operation in the Peninsula campaign. What bias does that demonstrate? Besides, if I wish to ask for the records of Martian involvement in the Peninsula campaign, it is not soliciting snide comments and is, if I may say nun o yo bidness.

I'm talking about the OP. You didn't ask for a recommendation that favored any certain viewpoint.

 

[Saphroneth]

I'm talking about the OP.

An answer which doesn't require buias seems fairly obvious to me. If someone wanted a view of the Peninsular Campaign, they'd naturally gravitate towards Sears. (I mean, he's not a good choice, but that's another matter.) This is from the Union side overall, so therefore a view from the Confederate side would balance it.

I'd say it's valuable to read Harsh's history of the period, which is a Confederate PoV of Lee's side of the war and includes the Peninsular campaign, because the Confederates were the reacting power. It's also much easier to read the ORs and get the true stats from the Union side than to do the the same for the Confederates, because the Confederates destroyed a lot of their records; thus Harsh is useful. IIRC it's Confederate Tide Rising which you'd need. (Importantly it covers the period around the Seven Days rather than just the Days themselves.)

 

[Jimklag]

I'm talking about the OP. You didn't ask for a recommendation that favored any certain viewpoint.

Thought you were replying to my post.

 

[cash]

Thought you were replying to my post.

No, just an accident of timing.

 

[Arioch]

....The ships used were hired by John Tucker, and he supplied a list when a scandal broke regarding misappropriation of funds....

I'll be darned...I actually have been looking for something like this for a while....WooHoo!!....found the 'Rockland' and the 'Juniata'....now, looking for 'Forest City'.....

See?...you never know where you will find things...Thanks for posting that link!