Taking the Stone Wall

[Horse_Artillery_23]

The canal is certainly in the outer limits of the city ..however depending on which portion …. Buildings or "suburbs" extended past it. The painting of the opening attack on Marye's Heights of the 24th and 28th New Jersey regiments show the mill race in the foreground and buildings and fences beyond etc …. As for crossing it …. Everything I have ever seen (and I haven't seen everything) suggests they were under fire while crossing the canal. The 5th NY never really left the environs of the city "suburbs" and notes minne balls…… however the more you have me all looking at this …..even had the Federals captured the sunken road….then what? There's really nobody to exploit the breakthrough…..Just like the poor Pennsylvania Reserves had to learn the hard way further south.

The river and city make it impossible to bring proper artillery support forward….so that it can concentrate properly…..If the Civil War has taught me anything….it was an artillerymens war (and this is coming from a former Cavalryman ;-) )

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The canal is certainly in the outer limits of the city ..however depending on which portion …. Buildings or "suburbs" extended past it. The painting of the opening attack on Marye's Heights of the 24th and 28th New Jersey regiments show the mill race in the foreground and buildings and fences beyond etc …. As for crossing it …. Everything I have ever seen (and I haven't seen everything) suggests they were under fire while crossing the canal. The 5th NY never really left the environs of the city "suburbs" and notes minne balls…… however the more you have me all looking at this …..even had the Federals captured the sunken road….then what? There's really nobody to exploit the breakthrough…..Just like the poor Pennsylvania Reserves had to learn the hard way further south.

The river and city make it impossible to bring proper artillery support forward….so that it can concentrate properly…..If the Civil War has taught me anything….it was an artillerymens war (and this is coming from a former Cavalryman ;-) )

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Also to draw a comparison to other situations that draw similar parallels…. Yet each yields a different result. Napoleon made similar assaults (with an equivalent sized army to the AoP) at Austerlitz and Borodino …. Each time the attack was up hill … and while Austerlitz produced a stunning victory, both were costly to Napoleons army.

Similarly Marye's Heights and the stone wall were not so different from Malvern Hill …..(Southwick also eluded to this) and while there was more room to coordinate attacks and less obstacles…. It was still stopped cold.

Taking the wall was possible…..but was it cost Burnside was willing to pay? Furthermore (and I don't dislike Burnside in the slightest) was Burnside capable of orchestrating the level tactical and strategic acuity to enact such a complex operation?

 

[Horse_Artillery_23]

I think that is certainly overstating it. I can think of an army that would be able to shell the stone wall effectually from about two miles away with 12 pounder rifle shells, which destroys the wall, and neutralizes the defending artillery. Once that's done then the job of the attackers is best done with a cloud of skirmishers in front and attacking infantry in line or column behind; if the skirmishers get established a couple of hundred yards from the wall they can suppress the defenders.


The thing about this is that there are ways to attack a defended position; they are difficult and complex and they can easily go wrong, but there are ways to do this properly and they involve mass - mass of skirmishers and then mass of the assault force. The skirmishers suppress the defenders as much as possible and then the assault force comes in a single body to try and push through.

It doesn't always work, but it doesn't always fail. This approach however is much more likely to work than the historical piecemeal assaults and it doesn't expose the force to any more risk.


That said, I do agree with the proposition that the obstacles make an attack difficult. I just think it's hyperbole to claim it was totally impossible. It is within the physical capabilities of men to attack through heavy fire, it's a question of morale and making that morale challenge as easy as possible.

One aspect I think the Federals lacked here was proper use of artillery. Certainly the guns on Stafford heights and around Falmouth were effective…..but only in providing supporting fire….. one of the great successes of the U.S. Army at Palo Alto in 1846 was the implementation of Major Ringgold's artillery tactics…..mobile artillery designed to move rapidly with infantry assault…..for all the reasons we all have collectively stated ….employing artillery in the space afforded would have been certain suicide for the artillery. At any rate light artillery in the assault itself would have provided the punch needed to not only pierce but also consolidate and hold off a counterattack….. obviously none of this was available when the assault happened.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

one of the great successes of the U.S. Army at Palo Alto in 1846 was the implementation of Major Ringgold's artillery tactics…..mobile artillery designed to move rapidly with infantry assault

This tactic seems to have been rendered obsolete by the introduction of rifled artillery and rifled muskets, as well as a lack of specialized training. I think the Union experience at First Bull Run also contributed to their unwillingness to attempt this. Notwithstanding some dubious theories about Lee's "real" plans to support the July 3 assault on Cemetery Ridge, I'm not sure this sort of thing was attempted or even seriously considered after 1861, by either side.

 

[repman66]

The canal is certainly in the outer limits of the city ..however depending on which portion …. Buildings or "suburbs" extended past it. The painting of the opening attack on Marye's Heights of the 24th and 28th New Jersey regiments show the mill race in the foreground and buildings and fences beyond etc …. As for crossing it …. Everything I have ever seen (and I haven't seen everything) suggests they were under fire while crossing the canal. The 5th NY never really left the environs of the city "suburbs" and notes minne balls…… however the more you have me all looking at this …..even had the Federals captured the sunken road….then what? There's really nobody to exploit the breakthrough…..Just like the poor Pennsylvania Reserves had to learn the hard way further south.

The river and city make it impossible to bring proper artillery support forward….so that it can concentrate properly…..If the Civil War has taught me anything….it was an artillerymens war (and this is coming from a former Cavalryman ;-) )

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The issue is any supporting cannons are well within musketry range - further look at the photos I posted above - even with British or later Krupp breach loading guns can you see the stone wall to friggen shoot at it? --- it's essentially hidden from view from Stafford Heights - you could maybe knock out some of the rifled guns on the crest but Alexander put Napoleons right down the crest near the infantry line.

The **** town gets in the way