Taking the Stone Wall

[Hoplite]

Could the Stone Wall have been taken by the AOP? Reading O'Reilly's book on Fredericksburg and came across this:
Nelson Miles brigade piled across Hanover Street and into the backyards of George Rowe and Thomas Proctor houses. A garden with a tight board fence delineated the property. The fence hid the enemy from our sight recalled a soldier of the 61st NY, but the distance to their nearest line of rifle pits was short. Miles estimated that the stone wall stood about forty yards beyond the wooden fence. Miles convinced himself he could capture the stone wall at the foot of Marye's Heights. 'We were then within 40 yards of the enemy and it only needed a spirited charge with the bayonet to close in.'

He needed Caldwell's and Zook's to support him however but both balked at the idea that there was no support.

'I only regret I did not make the attempt alone to carry the hill, had there been any support I should not have hesitated to give him the order' wrote Caldwell.

 

[Bentonville]

Could the Stone Wall have been taken by the AOP? Reading O'Reilly's book on Fredericksburg and came across this:
Nelson Miles brigade piled across Hanover Street and into the backyards of George Rowe and Thomas Proctor houses. A garden with a tight board fence delineated the property. The fence hid the enemy from our sight recalled a soldier of the 61st NY, but the distance to their nearest line of rifle pits was short. Miles estimated that the stone wall stood about forty yards beyond the wooden fence. Miles convinced himself he could capture the stone wall at the foot of Marye's Heights. 'We were then within 40 yards of the enemy and it only needed a spirited charge with the bayonet to close in.'

He needed Caldwell's and Zook's to support him however but both balked at the idea that there was no support.

'I only regret I did not make the attempt alone to carry the hill, had there been any support I should not have hesitated to give him the order' wrote Caldwell.

I'm no great tactician,l (armchair general). I'd say that there was serious difficulties in taking that position.

The Confederates had high ground and were behind a wall. Rushing guns is not a good idea but was the tactics at the time.

You could bring up Pickett's fiasco at in Pennsylvania as an obvious example. IMHO Cold Harbor holds the truth; bravery only gets you so far.

 

[bamaman]

I'm no great tactician,l (armchair general). I'd say that there was serious difficulties in taking that position.

The Confederates had high ground and were behind a wall. Rushing guns is not a good idea but was the tactics at the time.

You could bring up Pickett's fiasco at in Pennsylvania as an obvious example. IMHO Cold Harbor holds the truth; bravery only gets you so far.

Yes, there was no chance. It was a slaughter pen and a turkey shoot

 

[bankerpapaw]

I'm no great tactician,l (armchair general). I'd say that there was serious difficulties in taking that position.

The Confederates had high ground and were behind a wall. Rushing guns is not a good idea but was the tactics at the time.

You could bring up Pickett's fiasco at in Pennsylvania as an obvious example. IMHO Cold Harbor holds the truth; bravery only gets you so far.

Two key phrases: High ground and behind a wall. Tough going!!

 

[Bentonville]

Two key phrases: High ground and behind a wall. Tough going!!

This might sound cynical, and from coming from a southern guy doubly so, but I would have burned the whole town, every single last building to the ground or made the attempt. Would have changed the Confederate position entirely. I would have focused on just that and shelling.

 

[Hoplite]

I'm no great tactician,l (armchair general). I'd say that there was serious difficulties in taking that position.

The Confederates had high ground and were behind a wall. Rushing guns is not a good idea but was the tactics at the time.

You could bring up Pickett's fiasco at in Pennsylvania as an obvious example. IMHO Cold Harbor holds the truth; bravery only gets you so far.

Not rushing Marye's Heights where the guns are, talking about the stone wall along the road occupied by infantry

 

[dlofting]

This might sound cynical, and from coming from a southern guy doubly so, but I would have burned the whole town, every single last building to the ground or made the attempt. Would have changed the Confederate position entirely. I would have focused on just that and shelling.

Not sure how burning the town would have helped in driving the Confederates off Marye's Heights. Are you suggesting that might have allowed the AOP to flank the ANV line?

 

[Bentonville]

Not sure how burning the town would have helped in driving the Confederates off Marye's Heights. Are you suggesting that might have allowed the AOP to flank the ANV line?

Yes.

 

[jackt62]

The focus on the stone wall at Marye's Heights is misguided. Burnside's main assault was to have been made by Franklin's Left Grand Division against Jackson's Corps that was deployed south of the town. The attack on the Heights against Longstreet was to have been a secondary, or diversionary assault. The main attack was conceived as a conventional turning movement centered around the RR at Hamilton's Crossing and Prospect Hill. In practice, faulty orders by Burnside and inconsistent execution by Franklin doomed that portion of the attack, despite it making some preliminary headway. Once Franklin's part of the operation bogged down, Burnside should have called off Sumner's frontal assault as the likelihood of carrying such a position under prevailing conditions was virtually nil. But Burnside foolishly committed additional waves of troops to no avail.

 

[gary]

Yes if it was done Soviet style with provosts shooting any soldier who dared to retreat. Thankfully that wasn't done and the men were allowed to pull back. There is a good account in B&L about being pinned down before the Stone Wall. Sucked to be on the wrong side of the wall and on the receiving end.

 

[Caddo Militia]

I'm no great tactician,l (armchair general). I'd say that there was serious difficulties in taking that position.

The Confederates had high ground and were behind a wall. Rushing guns is not a good idea but was the tactics at the time.

You could bring up Pickett's fiasco at in Pennsylvania as an obvious example. IMHO Cold Harbor holds the truth; bravery only gets you so far.

E. Porter Alexander's artillery at Marye's Heights was well-placed to sweep the field with canister, and had a lot to do with the repulse. Hunt's artillery at Pickett's charge returned the favor a few months later.

 

[52ndFandS]

I'd have avoided that place like there was typhoid.

 

[neyankee61]

In the world of What if's, change Union commanders, Franklin for Sumner. On the Union left, Franklin attacked with one division and failed to support it. Meade's division did break though, but was repulsed when support failed to arrive. Sumner attacked the Heights repeatedly, sending in wave after wave. Put Franklin in front of the heights and Sumner on the left.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

Even if Miles or some other Union unit had managed to reach the stone wall a downhill Confederate counterattack would have sent them running soon thereafter.

 

[1SGDan]

A reminder that the stone wall and Fredericksburg was taken by Federal troops during the battle of Chancellorsville.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

A reminder that the stone wall and Fredericksburg was taken by Federal troops during the battle of Chancellorsville.

Yes, because it was three divisions attacking one brigade, and without backup on the heights.

 

[1SGDan]

Yes, because it was three divisions attacking one brigade.

That doesn't discount that the wall was taken.

 

[UncleJohnCT]

Setting aside the height and width of the stone wall, and its elevated position, the Federals had to attack nearly 900 yards across the Fredericksburg fairground -- onto which the Confederates had placed yardage markers so they knew exactly when to fire at attackers.

 

[scooter748driver]

That doesn't discount that the wall was taken.

True, but takes some of the "glory" out of the achievement when so lightly defended. Heck, I "took" the wall when I was there in 1987 lol. Of course it wasn't defended at all then

 

[1SGDan]

"glory"

There is no glory in watching your fellow soldiers die ugly deaths at a young age.