South Mountain.

[dlavin]

I'd be in for a spring visit. I haven't actually been to South Mountain though visited Antietam several times. Well Ive been to the Washington Monument once along the AT, as a stop after South Mountain creamery with my daughter, but we did not explore the battlefield.

 

[67th Tigers]

Well then I guess all the signs, the field leaders, the Doc. Gene that was leading us, all the books about Antietam are wrong.
It was McClellan's Headquarters and also a HOSPITAL!! The hill behind the Pry House was also used for a signal station.
It is a little hard for me to not get a angry over your statement and tell you to butt out but I can't do that. But I will ask that if you join in please be accurate and keep your personal attacks to yourself, please!! I realize McClellan is your favorite of all times and I respect your knowledge but others have as much or more than you.

The only person that ever said McClellan's HQ was the Pry House was Mr. Pry - who also said McClellan stayed in bed during the battle. Ben Lossing published this claim in 1866 leading to confusion.

All first hand accounts are that his HQ was in a house in the middle of Sykes' regulars (i.e the Ecker House) overlooking Porter's Bridge. Tom Clemens has an article submitted to this effect ISTR to Civil War Times.

The signals station near Pry's is the "station on the right" in Myer's report, and is in communication with McClellan's HQ between this station and Burnside:

"On Wednesday, September 17, was fought the principal battle of the Antietam. The general plan of signal operations was similar to that of the preceding day, the reports from the station on the right and from the station on Elk Mountain being concentrated at what was known as the Headquarters station, near General McClellan. A station was posted on the left at the position of General Burnside on the field, thence communicating with the mountain, and receiving reports for that officer. As our lines advanced on the west side of the Antietam, driving in the enemy's left, stations were established as closely as possible behind the lines, and near to the generals commanding in that portion of the field. A station was thus established, subject to artillery fire, by Lieuts. E. C. Pierce and W. F. Barrett, at the Miller house, near the position of General E. V. Sumner. The signal package carried on the saddle by one of the flagmen of this party was cut in two by a cannon-shot."

 

[James N.]

Well then I guess all the signs, the field leaders, the Doc. Gene that was leading us, all the books about Antietam are wrong.
It was McClellan's Headquarters and also a HOSPITAL!! The hill behind the Pry House was also used for a signal station.

As a former artillery reenactor and long-time artillery enthusiast, my favorite "fact" is that the hill behind/beside it was where the 20-pounder Parrotts of the Artillery Reserve Brigade were stationed; from there they could "reach out and touch" virtually the entire Confederate position.

 

[Drew]

The only person that ever said McClellan's HQ was the Pry House was Mr. Pry

Um, no. The National Park Service and generations of scholars hold out the Pry House as McClellan's original perch.

It was a good one. That he blew it, as usual, has nothing to do with where he planted himself.

 

[67th Tigers]

Um, no. The National Park Service and generations of scholars hold out the Pry House as McClellan's original perch.

Yeah, except it wasn't. At least everyone that was actually there says it was further south rather than in the hospital with the surgeons hacking off limbs. There is some discussion whether it was the Ecker knoll or another one to the north, but the evidence is clear it wasn't the Pry House.

"49. Strother, "Personal Recollections," 281. There are two possible locations for this command post. The first is a knoll located just across the Boonsboro Pike to the south and east of the modern entrance to the Pry House, next to the modern First Baptist Church of Sharpsburg. (Two white houses now sit on top of this knoll.) The other possible location is the bluff between Porterstown and the Antietam upon which the residence of J. Eckers rested in 1862 and "Greenbriar Farm" sits today. "Map of the Battlefield of the Antietam," in George B. Davis et al., The Official Military Atlas of the Civil War (1891– 95; reprint, New York: Fairfax Press, 1983), plate 28, map 2. Both of these locations would have given McClellan a view of the northern part of the battlefield that was less obstructed by the East Woods than the Pry House and made it easier for him to communicate with Burnside. Strother's 1868 article is the only significant source that contradicts the traditional view that McClellan spent the entire Battle of Antietam, except for his afternoon visit to the East Woods to talk with Franklin and Sumner, at the Pry House, although there is also an account by a member of the Fifth Corps that recalls seeing McClellan on Eckers's Bluff during the battle. Thomas M. Anderson, "The Reserve at Antietam," in Battles and Leaders, ed. Johnson and Buel, 2: 656. Nonetheless, I have chosen to accept Strother's account of McClellan moving his command post. It seems logical that at a time when he had just ordered Sumner to join the battle and was contemplating sending orders to Burnside to commence his attack, McClellan would seek a vantage point that might give him a better view of the battle north of Sharpsburg and improve his ability to monitor operations south of town. It also seems unlikely that Strother would have made something like this up in an article that was certain to receive wide circulation at a time when there were dozens of people, including McClellan, who could have refuted it. To the best of my knowledge, no one ever did."

Rafuse, Ethan S. (2011-11-23). McClellan's War: The Failure of Moderation in the Struggle for the Union (p. 474). Indiana University Press. Kindle Edition.

Edit:

Let me point out that most people ultimately draw from Charles Coffin's description 24 years after the event. He indeed says the HQ was at "the large square Mansion of Mr Pry", but then describes it as amongst Porter's 5th Corps and describes the fields east of the Mumma and Roulette Houses as across the creek. Well okay, but that's the Ecker House he's just described.

The available sources are thus:

1. Mr Pry told Ben Lossing McClellan's HQ was his house, and that McClellan slept late, and had a good breakfast, not bothering to attend to the battle until after 0800 (original source). Carman repeated the story. It's nonsense as Stother, Snell and others saw McClellan at different places earlier than this, and there are documentary orders given by McClellan before this (including McClellan's second, confirmatory, order to Sumner to attack timestamped 0720).

2. Stother's Diary says he found McClellan early in the morning giving orders at the Newcomer House (west of the creek over the Porter/ Middle bridge) and they set up their CP on a knoll east of the creek near there colocated with 5th Corps HQ.

3. Coffin's article in the Century says as above; he says it's the Pry House and then describes the Ecker House's location.

4. Thomas Anderson in the Century says McClellan's HQ was overlooking the middle bridge with Porter's 5th Corps HQ.

5. Schell (41 years after the event) said McClellan's HQ was a on bare hill with Porter beyond Pry's Farm coming from the direction of Keedyville.

So it's really not clear it was the Pry House (Sumner's HQ of the night of the 16th). Once we reject Pry's claims that are obviously partially incorrect and look at the described locations it's likely the Ecker House.

 

[Jamieva]

Civil War trust says it was his HQ too

http://www.civilwar.org/150th-anniversary/150-to-do-list/index.html#19

 

[Drew]

Yeah, except it wasn't. At least everyone that was actually there says it was further south rather than in the hospital with the surgeons hacking off limbs. There is some discussion whether it was the Ecker knoll or another one to the north, but the evidence is clear it wasn't the Pry House.

Well, the evidence seems pretty clear to almost everyone that is WAS the Pry House. There are not a lot of places "further south" that could have served as well as vantage points. The Pry Family was ultimately compensated by the War Department for damage done to the property. Seems a silly thing to argue over.

 

[Rebforever]

Reno Monument #2
Fox's Gap, South Mountain.

 

[Andrew]

Seems a silly thing to argue over.

To me it seems like an interesting thing to discuss. I'd be interested in seeing other first person accounts other than the ones 67th Tigers has provided.

 

[67th Tigers]

Well, the evidence seems pretty clear to almost everyone that is WAS the Pry House. There are not a lot of places "further south" that could have served as well as vantage points. The Pry Family was ultimately compensated by the War Department for damage done to the property. Seems a silly thing to argue over.

The Pry House was a field hospital. The downstairs of the main house was an operating room and the upstairs is where they placed the wounded officers. The adjacent barn was used for enlisted men, and soon this overfilled and hundreds of tents were set up in the grounds to house the wounded.

Where was McClellan's HQ? In the operating room? With the piles of hacked off limbs?

No. Aside from Mr Pry's "oral communication" no-one at the time said the Pry House was McClellan's HQ. A quarter of a century later some said it was, but then described the location differently. Contamination of the historiography had already occurred.

We know McClellan's main HQ was still at Keedysville on the 17th from the diary of one of his HQ guards (Taber). It was still there on the 18th. The location of McClellan's command post for most of the battle was the same "commanding knoll" near the Ecker house he choose on the 15th.

 

[Rebforever]

"Jackson's left and center were in imminent danger of collapse. At great sacrifice, Doubleday's 1st Division had punched a salient in Jackson's line, its epicenter in the southwest corner of the cornfield. While this looked propitious to McClellan and his staff as they watched through binoculars from the Pry House across the creek, the fact remained that the Federal position within the salient had not been solidified, and four Confederate brigades were still putting up a stiff resistance."

http://www.historynet.com/battle-of-antietam-carnage-in-a-cornfield.htm

 

[Rebforever]

View from the Confederate line at the Corn field.
East woods on the right. Miller Farm to the left.

 

[Rebforever]

Corn field from the Union line.
West Woods on the right.

 

[Rebforever]

"Been there; done that" last year:

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/prelude-to-antietam-the-battles-for-south-mountain.104116/

Agreed, and hope you have a good trip!

Yes, and you had a way better presentation than me. I just shoot the pics and hope they come out right.

 

[Drew]

At the Union line is acknowledged a 15 year-old Ohioan, who stepped up when the chips were down:

 

[Drew]

The Texans get the nod, at the same place:

 

[Drew]

Before the Poffenberger Farm north of the cornfield is Clara Barton's monument. She rushed aid and supplies into this place to care for the wounded. The American Red Cross that followed her is at the bottom.

 

[Rob9641]

Yeah, except it wasn't. At least everyone that was actually there says it was further south rather than in the hospital with the surgeons hacking off limbs. There is some discussion whether it was the Ecker knoll or another one to the north, but the evidence is clear it wasn't the Pry House.

"49. Strother, "Personal Recollections," 281. There are two possible locations for this command post. The first is a knoll located just across the Boonsboro Pike to the south and east of the modern entrance to the Pry House, next to the modern First Baptist Church of Sharpsburg. (Two white houses now sit on top of this knoll.) The other possible location is the bluff between Porterstown and the Antietam upon which the residence of J. Eckers rested in 1862 and "Greenbriar Farm" sits today. "Map of the Battlefield of the Antietam," in George B. Davis et al., The Official Military Atlas of the Civil War (1891– 95; reprint, New York: Fairfax Press, 1983), plate 28, map 2. Both of these locations would have given McClellan a view of the northern part of the battlefield that was less obstructed by the East Woods than the Pry House and made it easier for him to communicate with Burnside. Strother's 1868 article is the only significant source that contradicts the traditional view that McClellan spent the entire Battle of Antietam, except for his afternoon visit to the East Woods to talk with Franklin and Sumner, at the Pry House, although there is also an account by a member of the Fifth Corps that recalls seeing McClellan on Eckers's Bluff during the battle. Thomas M. Anderson, "The Reserve at Antietam," in Battles and Leaders, ed. Johnson and Buel, 2: 656. Nonetheless, I have chosen to accept Strother's account of McClellan moving his command post. It seems logical that at a time when he had just ordered Sumner to join the battle and was contemplating sending orders to Burnside to commence his attack, McClellan would seek a vantage point that might give him a better view of the battle north of Sharpsburg and improve his ability to monitor operations south of town. It also seems unlikely that Strother would have made something like this up in an article that was certain to receive wide circulation at a time when there were dozens of people, including McClellan, who could have refuted it. To the best of my knowledge, no one ever did."

Rafuse, Ethan S. (2011-11-23). McClellan's War: The Failure of Moderation in the Struggle for the Union (p. 474). Indiana University Press. Kindle Edition.

Edit:

Let me point out that most people ultimately draw from Charles Coffin's description 24 years after the event. He indeed says the HQ was at "the large square Mansion of Mr Pry", but then describes it as amongst Porter's 5th Corps and describes the fields east of the Mumma and Roulette Houses as across the creek. Well okay, but that's the Ecker House he's just described.

The available sources are thus:

1. Mr Pry told Ben Lossing McClellan's HQ was his house, and that McClellan slept late, and had a good breakfast, not bothering to attend to the battle until after 0800 (original source). Carman repeated the story. It's nonsense as Stother, Snell and others saw McClellan at different places earlier than this, and there are documentary orders given by McClellan before this (including McClellan's second, confirmatory, order to Sumner to attack timestamped 0720).

2. Stother's Diary says he found McClellan early in the morning giving orders at the Newcomer House (west of the creek over the Porter/ Middle bridge) and they set up their CP on a knoll east of the creek near there colocated with 5th Corps HQ.

3. Coffin's article in the Century says as above; he says it's the Pry House and then describes the Ecker House's location.

4. Thomas Anderson in the Century says McClellan's HQ was overlooking the middle bridge with Porter's 5th Corps HQ.

5. Schell (41 years after the event) said McClellan's HQ was a on bare hill with Porter beyond Pry's Farm coming from the direction of Keedyville.

So it's really not clear it was the Pry House (Sumner's HQ of the night of the 16th). Once we reject Pry's claims that are obviously partially incorrect and look at the described locations it's likely the Ecker House.

Have you shared your research with the historians at Antietam? Probably a good idea for you to do that. They have access to all kinds of documents that are not out in the general public, things like letters written by the locals and so on. If you have something to add to what they have, they'd like it.

I am not sure that McClellan did this, but it was not unusual for headquarters to be moved, especially after the battle. And almost anything with a roof over it in Washington County became a hospital after the battle, so if McClellan was in any building at all, he shared it with the wounded, unless he tented, which I believe he did, at least after the battle.

 

[Rob9641]

I used to live up there on South Mountain and spent lots of time in the battlefield area. The troops used an old farm road up there to move around - it is now part of the Appalachian Trail. At Turner's Gap it crosses Alternate Route 40, which was part of the National Road back in the day. Lots of history up there. I'm glad you've brought it to light.

 

[ole]

Have you shared your research with the historians at Antietam? Probably a good idea for you to do that. They have access to all kinds of documents that are not out in the general public, things like letters written by the locals and so on. If you have something to add to what they have, they'd like it.

I am not sure that McClellan did this, but it was not unusual for headquarters to be moved, especially after the battle. And almost anything with a roof over it in Washington County became a hospital after the battle, so if McClellan was in any building at all, he shared it with the wounded, unless he tented, which I believe he did, at least after the battle.

Warning, 67th. Darn few know more about Antietam than Rob. She practically lives on the property and has volunteered there for a loooooong time.