South Mountain.

[ole]

What…African or European?

Only the African variety can carry coconuts.

 

[Rob9641]

I don't want to take this thread too far afield, but I am curious. Are you sure they are Chimney Swifts and not some kind of swallow (Barn or Cliff)? I always thought that swifts nest in hollow trees and chimneys, whereas it is common for swallows to build nests under bridges.

Flying cigars. Look like chimney swifts to me, but the little devils are fast, so maybe I am wrong.

 

[ole]

Might more likely be barn swallows. I don't know what a chimney swift looks like, but barn swallows dart about and you rarely get a good look at them.

 

[ole]

Might more likely be barn swallows. I don't know what a chimney swift looks like, but barn swallows dart about and you rarely get a good look at them.

However, ours tucked themselves up under the eaves. The bridge doesn't look like it presents a flat, protected surface.

 

[Drew]

This is I think my last picture here. There's not much monument to Confederate forces who fought at the Battle of Antietam. I'm not sure why, it's been said there was no money in the South to support it when the Battlefield was marked. Maybe politics at the time had more to do with it. I don't rightly know.

Here, at Antietam's Cornfield, is a monument to the 11th Mississippi Infantry Regiment, who fought desperately under General Evander Law as part of Hood's Division. The monument was placed and dedicated on the sesquicentennial of the battle in 2012. Better late than never.

The Mississippians are just as much a part of our history as everyone else who fought there and it's good to see them recognized. "Ducii Amore Patriae."

 

[Rob9641]

However, ours tucked themselves up under the eaves. The bridge doesn't look like it presents a flat, protected surface.

The nests are built in colonies. One very large mud slab may hold 4 or 5 families, and the entrances are upside down (the parents fly up into the small openings to get to the nestlings). The barn swallows that nested on my porch were single family nests with entrances at the open top of the nest, like a regular bird's nest. But these could be cliff swallows, which I understand nest in colonies. Like I said, the buggers are fast so they are hard to see, but I don't recollect a split tail.

 

[Rob9641]

This is I think my last picture here. There's not much monument to Confederate forces who fought at the Battle of Antietam. I'm not sure why, it's been said there was no money in the South to support it when the Battlefield was marked. Maybe politics at the time had more to do with it. I don't rightly know.

Here, at Antietam's Cornfield, is a monument to the 11th Mississippi Infantry Regiment, who fought desperately under General Evander Law as part of Hood's Division. The monument was placed and dedicated on the sesquicentennial of the battle in 2012. Better late than never.

The Mississippians are just as much a part of our history as everyone else who fought there and it's good to see them recognized. "Ducii Amore Patriae."

View attachment 84189

Like the statue of Robert E Lee at the Newcomer Farm, this Mississippi monument was erected on what was then private property (that farmstead in the middle of the battlefield with the barn that was falling apart) but what has since been acquired by the Park Service.

The South wasn't much on putting monuments on battlefields in non-Confederacy states that they could not call victories (and right now I can't think of one they COULD call a victory). I think that started to change as the veterans grew older but really didn't hit stride until the 1960s when a flurry of monument erections began, especially at Antietam and Gettysburg (but there is a North Carolina monument at South Mountain that is only a few years old).

But immediately after the war, they really had many better things to spend their money on. The money didn't really come rolling into the South until air conditioning came along, opening up the area to more business investment.

Yes, I am a firm believer that air conditioning governed politics and business in the hotter States. I even believe that if air conditioning had been invented before the CW, there would have been no CW, because no one would have come out of their houses to fight it. Lord knows I remember the Southland before air conditioning was in widespread use, and it was a darned miserable place once you crossed the Potomac River (except that DC was pretty darned miserable too, given that it sits in such a bowl right on the humid river).

 

[Drew]

Like the statue of Robert E Lee at the Newcomer Farm, this Mississippi monument was erected on what was then private property (that farmstead in the middle of the battlefield with the barn that was falling apart) but what has since been acquired by the Park Service.

The South wasn't much on putting monuments on battlefields in non-Confederacy states that they could not call victories (and right now I can't think of one they COULD call a victory). I think that started to change as the veterans grew older but really didn't hit stride until the 1960s when a flurry of monument erections began, especially at Antietam and Gettysburg (but there is a North Carolina monument at South Mountain that is only a few years old).

But immediately after the war, they really had many better things to spend their money on. The money didn't really come rolling into the South until air conditioning came along, opening up the area to more business investment.

Yes, I am a firm believer that air conditioning governed politics and business in the hotter States. I even believe that if air conditioning had been invented before the CW, there would have been no CW, because no one would have come out of their houses to fight it. Lord knows I remember the Southland before air conditioning was in widespread use, and it was a darned miserable place once you crossed the Potomac River (except that DC was pretty darned miserable too, given that it sits in such a bowl right on the humid river).

This touches on lots of issues and thanks for posting. The barn in the middle of the cornfield is a disaster, yes. It's post-war construction but still built from a design and period that gives me pause about having it torn down and carried away. I won't get a vote and in the end I guess I'm glad the Civil War Trust got it and not "you-know-who-Mart."

I think the battlefields were mostly laid out in the late 19th/early 20th centuries, when veterans were still alive. Both sides had a voice in how most of it happened, as far as I know. The 1960's is a way different era and time frame.

I want to add I'm just back from a family trip to ArkLaTex, the last bastion of the Confederacy, never conquered or effectively policed after the war. It's pretty quiet and well behaved, but the fortunes still evident came from the oil and gas fields, before WWII and before air conditioning.

Homes extant from the era were designed to provide airflow to the greatest extent possible. The surviving mansions show it as do the shotgun houses where poor people lived. We oughtn't dismiss air conditioning but it shouldn't be overrated either. Lots of bucks were made without it.

 

[Andrew]

The nests are built in colonies. One very large mud slab may hold 4 or 5 families, and the entrances are upside down (the parents fly up into the small openings to get to the nestlings). The barn swallows that nested on my porch were single family nests with entrances at the open top of the nest, like a regular bird's nest. But these could be cliff swallows, which I understand nest in colonies. Like I said, the buggers are fast so they are hard to see, but I don't recollect a split tail.

Of all the local swallows, only the Barn Swallows have a distinctive split tail. Cliff Swallows do not. And you almost never see the tails of Chimney Swifts. Like you said, they are (tail-less) cigars with wings. Swifts aren't really the dive bombing sort, either. Swallows on the other hand, are.

Sounds like they're Cliff Swallows, based on your description of their behavior and nests. They are much less common than swifts and the other swallow species in the area, so I hope they continue to nest under the bridge. I don't know that their nests do damage to the bridge.

They are down in South America now that fall has arrived, but they will come back in the spring. I know they can be tough to identify, especially when they are flying so close and zipping around. The best thing to look for is the pale patch on the center of their forehead. It is very noticeable, even when you can't make out much else as they zip around. No other similar species will have that field mark.

Photo from https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Cliff_Swallow/lifehistory

 

[ole]

The nests are built in colonies. One very large mud slab may hold 4 or 5 families, and the entrances are upside down (the parents fly up into the small openings to get to the nestlings). The barn swallows that nested on my porch were single family nests with entrances at the open top of the nest, like a regular bird's nest. But these could be cliff swallows, which I understand nest in colonies. Like I said, the buggers are fast so they are hard to see, but I don't recollect a split tail.

From your excellently detailed description, they aren'g barn swallows.

 

[Rob9641]

This touches on lots of issues and thanks for posting. The barn in the middle of the cornfield is a disaster, yes. It's post-war construction but still built from a design and period that gives me pause about having it torn down and carried away. I won't get a vote and in the end I guess I'm glad the Civil War Trust got it and not "you-know-who-Mart."

I think the battlefields were mostly laid out in the late 19th/early 20th centuries, when veterans were still alive. Both sides had a voice in how most of it happened, as far as I know. The 1960's is a way different era and time frame.

I want to add I'm just back from a family trip to ArkLaTex, the last bastion of the Confederacy, never conquered or effectively policed after the war. It's pretty quiet and well behaved, but the fortunes still evident came from the oil and gas fields, before WWII and before air conditioning.

Homes extant from the era were designed to provide airflow to the greatest extent possible. The surviving mansions show it as do the shotgun houses where poor people lived. We oughtn't dismiss air conditioning but it shouldn't be overrated either. Lots of bucks were made without it.

A clarification - it's not the house and barn in the Cornfield that I was describing, but the house and barn on the south side of Cornfield Avenue (on that property the Confederate forces hid in a dip in the land while the Union forces came thru the Cornfield which is on the north side of Cornfield Avenue). The subject barn has been falling down for years (even had a tree growing in the upper loft) and the house quickly following suit but it was in private hands until very recently so it couldn't be taken down. The barn would have fallen down on its own before long (I was once prone to take bets on what would fall down first, this barn or the old Cyclorama building in Gettysburg that they took down in 2013).

The Miller house and barn are not technically in the Cornfield, altho Miller owned the Cornfield at the time. The barn is on the west side of the Hagerstown Pike and is still there, altho it has had structures added to it over the years. The Miller house has recently been restored and looks great. It and the Cornfield are on the east side of Hagerstown Pike.

 

[Rob9641]

From your excellently detailed description, they aren'g barn swallows.

Yeah, I'm voting for either cliff swallows or chimney swifts, leaning toward the cliff swallows.

 

[ole]

Yeah, I'm voting for either cliff swallows or chimney swifts, leaning toward the cliff swallows.

We don't have cliffs around here, except for Starved Rock, and that's not exactly around here.