Member Review Shelby Foote

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

Can second that, Historians Respond. Eye opening volume.

As my linked review might suggest, I thought it was more eye-opening about the critics than the miniseries they were criticizing.

 

[CWdiaryPA]

As my linked review might suggest, I thought it was more eye-opening about the critics than the miniseries they were criticizing.

Yeah, interesting thread for sure.

 

[Marco 1975]

I thought I was agreeing with you.

I've never interpreted anything Shelby Foote said as "lost cause ".




What alcoholism book ?

I thought I was agreeing with you.

I've never interpreted anything Shelby Foote said as "lost cause ".




What alcoholism book ?

It was originally on C-SPAN.
I think it's still available in their archives, but yeah ... YouTube is the easiest way to find it.


Nor does he say anything like that in the Burns series.

I think, Foote didn't talk about why the war break out, he was talking about why some confederate soldiers were fighting. That's two different things, I would say. There were confederate soldiers never owned a slave but they enlisted. I haven't hear Foote saying " slavery was'nt the reason for war " , he's saying, that there were also other reasons to fight. But that's just my opinion

 

[TallTallMan]

I thought I was agreeing with you.

I've never interpreted anything Shelby Foote said as "lost cause ".




What alcoholism book ?

I was agreeing with you. I just didn't know if you were being sarcastic, because this is the quote that sets off the steam. We're fine

As for alcholism, I was referiing to Ron Chernow's 2017 mess, Grant, which has been criticized for focusing too much on Grant's drinking. Much of what Foote is criticized for is actually more present in this: biased (against Confederates, Southerners, Democrats, and rival Union generals, in that order), badly researched (he didn't ONCE consult the Official Records but he used Caroline Janney?), simplistic (being anti-slavery does not necessarily mean one is an abolitionist) and ancedotal (digresses continuously about Mary Lincoln's eccentricities or Custer's dead body).

 

[huskerblitz]

badly researched (he didn't ONCE consult the Official Records

Where did you get this notion from?

 

[TallTallMan]

Where did you get this notion from?

Look at the notes and the bibliography.

 

[huskerblitz]

Look at the notes and the bibliography.

No.

"Moreover, Foote shunned original research and only referenced published biographies of military leaders and the 128-volume compilation of military reports and correspondence from the war, Official Records of the War of the Rebellion."

Novelist and Historian

Foote’s first period of professional success coincided with his brief and tumultuous marriage to Memphis socialite Peggy Stinson and the birth of their daughter, Margaret Dade Foote, in...

shelbyfoote.weebly.com

His Wiki page also cites another source that supports that notion. It's clear he utilized the Official Records.

 

[huskerblitz]

Look at the notes and the bibliography.

From his notes:

"BIBLIOGRAPHICAL NOTE [p. 813, Volume I]

"Many books by many men, predominantly military experts or professional historians, went into the making of this one book by one man who is neither, and of these the most useful, as well as the largest, were the 128-volume War of the Rebellion: a Compilation of the Official Records of the Union and Confederate Armies and the 30-volume Official Records of the Union and Confederate Navies in the War of the Rebellion, issued by the government in 1880-1901 and 1897-1927 respectively. There you hear the live men speak..."

 

[TallTallMan]

From his notes:

"BIBLIOGRAPHICAL NOTE [p. 813, Volume I]

"Many books by many men, predominantly military experts or professional historians, went into the making of this one book by one man who is neither, and of these the most useful, as well as the largest, were the 128-volume War of the Rebellion: a Compilation of the Official Records of the Union and Confederate Armies and the 30-volume Official Records of the Union and Confederate Navies in the War of the Rebellion, issued by the government in 1880-1901 and 1897-1927 respectively. There you hear the live men speak..."

Oh! I was talking about Chernow! I was saying Foote was a better researcher! I was saying Chernow's more lauded book is full of all the things Shelby is accused of. Foote used the OR as a primary source.

 

[huskerblitz]

Oh! I was talking about Chernow! I was saying Foote was a better researcher! I was saying Chernow's more lauded book is full of all the things Shelby is accused of. Foote used the OR as a primary source.

Ah. Sorry, I thought you were referencing Foote. Can't speak of Chernow as I haven't read his bio of Grant.

 

[edfranksphd]

Today I wanted to watch a 45 minute interview with Shelby Foote, I listened to him for nearly 5 hours. When the first Video was over I was looking for more. Maybe not everything he says is true and maybe he has a southern view to the war ( of course, he was a southener ) but I can't remember ever have enjoyed to listen to someone. I also like James Robertson jr., is there anyone from the north who is engaged in the civil war like these men are (were) ? I did'nt here about anyone

Agreed. But don't diss him as a "Southerner," b/c he was from one of the infamous "border" states, and TN was the LAST state to formally secede and become an official member of the CSA, so, even tho he was south of the Mason-Dixon line, he was likely pretty mild, and dare I say, even-handed, by definition, having been raised in a border state in the 1st ½ of the 20th ce.?! More important, perhaps, is that he was ½ or ¼ Jewish and was raised Jewish attending synagogue weekly until he was age 11, and, as a result of the discrimination he experienced later in life, he became a strong civil rights supporter before WW2! So, anyway, hence, he perhaps should be considered as not just another Southern apologist, but as someone uniquely qualified to right a "balanced" history of the war, something Bruce Catton & most modern historians rarely produce, imho. : )

 

[TallTallMan]

Ah. Sorry, I thought you were referencing Foote. Can't speak of Chernow as I haven't read his bio of Grant.

It's alright. I love Foote.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

I can't help but wonder if Shelby Foote and Ed Bearss knew each other.
No doubt they "crossed paths" and were acquainted.

But the thought of those two sharing a cold beer together reminds me
of an early 1960's photo of the legendary Alabama Coach Paul 'Bear ' Bryant
playing a private round of golf with one of his biggest "public" rivals at the time:
The Head Coach of Ole Miss ... Johnny Vaught.

To have been a " fly on the wall (or golf cart)" ... and listening to those conversations would have been amazing.

No different from listening to a conversation between Foote and Bearss.

 

[huskerblitz]

I can't help but wonder if Shelby Foote and Ed Bearss knew each other.
No doubt they "crossed paths" and were acquainted.

But the thought of those two sharing a cold beer together reminds me
of an early 1960's photo of the legendary Alabama Coach Paul 'Bear ' Bryant
playing a private round of golf with one of his biggest "public" rivals at the time:
The Head Coach of Ole Miss ... Johnny Vaught.

To have been a " fly on the wall (or golf cart)" ... and listening to those conversations would have been amazing.

No different from listening to a conversation between Foote and Bearss.

That absolutely would have been a fantastic listen!

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

But don't diss him as a "Southerner," b/c he was from one of the infamous "border" states, and TN was the LAST state to formally secede and become an official member of the CSA,

Nope.
Not at all.

Shelby Foote was born and raised in the Mississippi Delta.
As with many of our folks from the Delta, as an adult ... he later stepped across the state line into neighboring Memphis,Tennessee.

Both areas are not even remotely "infamous border regions".

 

[Marco 1975]

Agreed. But don't diss him as a "Southerner," b/c he was from one of the infamous "border" states, and TN was the LAST state to formally secede and become an official member of the CSA, so, even tho he was south of the Mason-Dixon line, he was likely pretty mild, and dare I say, even-handed, by definition, having been raised in a border state in the 1st ½ of the 20th ce.?! More important, perhaps, is that he was ½ or ¼ Jewish and was raised Jewish attending synagogue weekly until he was age 11, and, .as a result of the discrimination he experienced later in life, he became a strong civil rights supporter before WW2! So, anyway, hence, he perhaps should be considered as not just another Southern apologist, but as someone uniquely qualified to right a "balanced" history of the war, something Bruce Catton & most modern historians rarely produce, imho. : )

I did'nt know about the subtle differences. I always thought that he was fair to both sides. One can feel the sympathy to the " Jonny ( written correct? ) Rebs " when he was talking about them, the same when he's talking about " Billy Yanks ", at least that was my impression.
The same feeling I have by listening to James Robertson jr.

 

[G Low]

I did'nt know about the subtle differences. I always thought that he was fair to both sides. One can feel the sympathy to the " Jonny ( written correct? ) Rebs " when he was talking about them, the same when he's talking about " Billy Yanks ", at least that was my impression.
The same feeling I have by listening to James Robertson jr.

He was a great storyteller and southerner. Everyone roots for the home team, He was a good cheerleader for the south and also being Fair when talking about Yankees. And coming to Memphis from Miss. how about NBF and Elvis

 

[TallTallMan]

He was a great storyteller and southerner. Everyone roots for the home team, He was a good cheerleader for the south and also being Fair when talking about Yankees. And coming to Memphis from Miss. how about NBF and Elvis

He was fair. The idea that he was an unreconstructed racist is as false as can be.

 

[G Low]

He was fair. The idea that he was an unreconstructed racist is as false as can be.

Lewis Grizzard was also a good storyteller and could tell some good Yankee jokes too!!!

 

[RedRover]

Mr. Foote's novel "September, September" was made into the movie "Memphis" in 1992, starring Cybil Sheppard.

Regarding the War itself, Mr. Foote seemed generally consistent with his views. From an interview with the Birmingham (AL) News, 1977 (some years before the Burns documentary):