Member Review Shelby Foote

For a sample of Foote hatred:


What kind of nut counts his words?
 
Bud Robertson's lean towards the South is a bit more obvious than Foote's in my opinion, but everybody has their bias, and it doesn't color his interpretation the way it does with the deranged Dr. Clyde Wilson or, for the other side, Al Mackey and Atun-Shei.

Welcome to the forum! Get ready to see the elephant!
Buds lean was to virginia and virginians specifically. Not all the south.
 
Joshism said:

"Not all opinions are worthy of respect."

I agree.
I also think that every person has the right of freedom of thought and belief (and opinion.)

But who gets to decide which opinions are worthy of respect?

Some people are convinced that anyone who has a different opinion is just wrong. These people somehow believe that they have a monopoly on the truth and the rest of the world is just wrong, and possibly ignorant.
Where did they get the idea that they are the center of the universe?

Personally I'm okay if someone disagrees with me. It takes all kind of people to make a world.

The principle is that everyone can have their own opinion, not their own facts. There is a profound difference between groundless conjecture & a conclusion based on diligent research.
 
"I could redo my entire three volumes on the Civil War without using one bit of source material I used the first time and probably come to very different conclusions" wrote Shelby Foote. Man with the voice like butter, who, if he arose from the dead, so many of us women would dust him down then run off with. Hell yeah.

He apparently hand-wrote all his books. Saw an interview where he was questioned about his writing process. He said to the effect he manages pretty well right up till the point he loses something. A line, a paragraph he's looking for, a bit of research he has somewhere, yet can't quite find for having misplaced the thing. Anyone who's ever worked on a several year long project can relate.

As far as facts vs beliefs:
Foote: "It is absolutely true that no list of facts ever gives you a valid account of what happened."

I love, love this:

Conversations with Shelby Foote Edited by William C. Carter P. 124 (from a 1978 interview)

Foote: "Most historians are, I am afraid, so concerned with finding out what happened that they make the enormous mistake of equating facts with truth. No great column of facts can ever pose as the truth. Truth is order imposed on those facts; truth is the breath of life breathed into facts. It is not the facts. You can't get the truth from facts. The truth is the way you feel about it. It's made me question our judgment on great American political figures, for example. I remember the Kennedy years– both of them– and I don't think history will ever get any kind of true view of John Kennedy and what he meant to us at the time he was alive, because the facts don't support what we felt. What we felt about Kennedy cannot be expressed with facts. It was a feeling and that is going to be very difficult for future generations. They may be able to quote what some of us had to say about him, but that is not enough, either. It was a feeling that has to be communicated and some future historian is– in the course of writing the history of the United States– going to get to the Kennedy years and just be plumb mystified. What in the world was going on? He looks like a pretty ordinary little gent to me, and historians are not going to understand what he was. They are not going to understand that he followed Eisenhower when everybody was so weary of this big Kewpie doll sitting in the White House."

This is where the unsurpassed writers like Catton come in, Whitman.

Then there's this, ooh wee:

Foote re the Lost Cause:
"Trying something, failing gloriously at it, and then getting everybody's admiration. If that's not a novelist's description of what a lost cause is I've never read one."

Last, Foote, which may touch on Southern Pride: "But those people should command our sympathy. The South conducted itself bravely in an extremely difficult situation. Many of the things we're proudest of in the American character were exemplified in the southern soldier, for instance. We take a justifiable pride in the bravery of those men, North and South."

AFA Northern perspective, I like Edward Ayers, Kevin Levin, Joanne Freeman, Heather Cox, Karen L. Cox, Gary Gallagher, David Blight, Jonathan Noyalas, to name a few.

Last, but not least, Barbara Gannon, who kindly wrote me,
"You are a historian by the way. You do history, we academics do not own it."
 
"I could redo my entire three volumes on the Civil War without using one bit of source material I used the first time and probably come to very different conclusions" wrote Shelby Foote. Man with the voice like butter, who, if he arose from the dead, so many of us women would dust him down then run off with. Hell yeah.

He apparently hand-wrote all his books. Saw an interview where he was questioned about his writing process. He said to the effect he manages pretty well right up till the point he loses something. A line, a paragraph he's looking for, a bit of research he has somewhere, yet can't quite find for having misplaced the thing. Anyone who's ever worked on a several year long project can relate.

As far as facts vs beliefs:
Foote: "It is absolutely true that no list of facts ever gives you a valid account of what happened."

I love, love this:

Conversations with Shelby Foote Edited by William C. Carter P. 124 (from a 1978 interview)

Foote: "Most historians are, I am afraid, so concerned with finding out what happened that they make the enormous mistake of equating facts with truth. No great column of facts can ever pose as the truth. Truth is order imposed on those facts; truth is the breath of life breathed into facts. It is not the facts. You can't get the truth from facts. The truth is the way you feel about it. It's made me question our judgment on great American political figures, for example. I remember the Kennedy years– both of them– and I don't think history will ever get any kind of true view of John Kennedy and what he meant to us at the time he was alive, because the facts don't support what we felt. What we felt about Kennedy cannot be expressed with facts. It was a feeling and that is going to be very difficult for future generations. They may be able to quote what some of us had to say about him, but that is not enough, either. It was a feeling that has to be communicated and some future historian is– in the course of writing the history of the United States– going to get to the Kennedy years and just be plumb mystified. What in the world was going on? He looks like a pretty ordinary little gent to me, and historians are not going to understand what he was. They are not going to understand that he followed Eisenhower when everybody was so weary of this big Kewpie doll sitting in the White House."

This is where the unsurpassed writers like Catton come in, Whitman.

Then there's this, ooh wee:

Foote re the Lost Cause:
"Trying something, failing gloriously at it, and then getting everybody's admiration. If that's not a novelist's description of what a lost cause is I've never read one."

Last, Foote, which may touch on Southern Pride: "But those people should command our sympathy. The South conducted itself bravely in an extremely difficult situation. Many of the things we're proudest of in the American character were exemplified in the southern soldier, for instance. We take a justifiable pride in the bravery of those men, North and South."

AFA Northern perspective, I like Edward Ayers, Kevin Levin, Joanne Freeman, Heather Cox, Karen L. Cox, Gary Gallagher, David Blight, Jonathan Noyalas, to name a few.

Last, but not least, Barbara Gannon, who kindly wrote me,
"You are a historian by the way. You do history, we academics do not own it."
AFA other Southern Foote-like CW authors consider Winston Groom who was also a novelist. He wrote Forrest Gump.
 
I think Gary Gallagher is a really good talker.

Eric Foner is a better talker than a writer. His approach to Reconstruction is both insightful, but labyrinth and I think kind of flawed (he's got a Marxist approach in his writing - everything is about the relationship between Labor and Capital). But he's much better on Lincoln or pretty much any other topic he speaks about.



Only if you want two of the authors deepest into the Lost Cause.



There's a difference between the Southern perspective and the Lost Cause. Different perspectives don't need to include apologia, propaganda, or myth. Not all opinions are worthy of respect.

There's a famous Asimov quote that applies here.
Gallagher's great; I trust him almost completely. I'm the opposite on Foner: his books are good but I just can't stand him.

Dowdey's a great writer but an atrocious historian, especially his statement that somebody "scared" Traveller forward at the Wilderness. Freeman's not as bad; he criticizes Lee some.
 
Even if Foote kept some apocrypha is his books, he never filled it with as much badness as the ever-popular alcoholism book from a few years ago, so awful that every time I pull it off the shelf I start feeling like Tripp, wanting to scream "TEAR IT UP! TEAR IT UP! TEAR IT UP!" or at least use it in my bathroom.
 
I'm sorry, I have no idea how to share it but you can find in on YouTube put " Shelby Foote " in the search
It was originally on C-SPAN.
I think it's still available in their archives, but yeah ... YouTube is the easiest way to find it.

(he never even says anything Lost Cause in the doc to begin with).
Nor does he say anything like that in the Burns series.

 
Are you saying this is or isn't Lost Cause?
I thought I was agreeing with you.

I've never interpreted anything Shelby Foote said as "lost cause ".


Even if Foote kept some apocrypha is his books, he never filled it with as much badness as the ever-popular alcoholism book from a few years ago, so awful that every time I pull it off the shelf I start feeling like Tripp, wanting to scream "TEAR IT UP! TEAR IT UP! TEAR IT UP!" or at least use it in my bathroom.

What alcoholism book ?
 
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For a sample of Foote hatred:


What kind of nut counts his words?
Someone who anticipated criticism of the central thesis in his essay? I like it. I like it when people don't spout off having nothing to back up either what they're saying, or indirectly implying. I find his use of numbers here effective in showing up the discrepancy he mentions.

OR, Levin could have simply said Foote got a lot more airtime than Fields. But that would be vague. What do you mean a lot more? It wasn't that much more. Prove it.
 
If you really want to get into the pros and cons of Ken Burns's The Civil War, I have a book for that: Ken Burns's The Civil War: Historians Respond edited by Robert Brent Toplin.


It's been discussed here before.

 
If you really want to get into the pros and cons of Ken Burns's The Civil War, I have a book for that: Ken Burns's The Civil War: Historians Respond edited by Robert Brent Toplin.


It's been discussed here before.

Can second that, Historians Respond. Eye opening volume.
 
If you really want to get into the pros and cons of Ken Burns's The Civil War, I have a book for that: Ken Burns's The Civil War: Historians Respond edited by Robert Brent Toplin.


It's been discussed here before.

Thank you Library Lady. Renda on Toplin was an excellent read.
 

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