SCV Poll

[Andersonh1]

Same thing with the VFW - the organization is DYING because the older crowd and policymakers seemingly want to keep it 'the way it always has been'.

There is a MASSIVE pool of OIF/OEF combat vets - the younger demographic just have no interest in the canteen alcoholism and retelling of the same old war stories crowd.

The VFW does some amazing things - but they desperately need to modernize. There have been attempts at the national level for moving in that direction, but much too slowly - and they didn't start until they had already hemorrhaged a massive amount of members. At this rate, they will not be able to right the ship.

That is a tragedy.

There are some older men in the SCV who don't want to modernize. To a certain extent, I can understand, but sometimes little things like being willing to use email would be very helpful! Sometimes "we've always done it this way" is fine, if there's a good reason it's done that way. But sometimes change can be an improvement and can help keep the organization strong.

 

[MWood1841]

interesting to read everyone's different opinions and find it really intriguing that this thread has mentioned other organizations like VFW and now generational differences has entered into the fray. I would consider myself not a youngster, nor an senior. I'm inching my way towards 50 years old (a gen-x kid). Some very similar dynamics concerning generational and age differences is playing out across many different spectrum's. Workplaces, learning/educational institutions, organizations abroad. Technology as well as other social and cultural factors plays a big part. Just look at how simple communications has evolved and concepts of ideas, you can quickly see widening divides with age groups. Mix in personality conflicts and its easy to see why groups like SCV and others are grappling with organizational change. Someone earlier joked about this contrast with the Confederate govt and Armies. So very true. A many army and empire have fallen in this world due to internal conflict and inability to adapt to change and refusal to accept or understand a changing battlefield.

This is true for history in general in terms of memory and also how we choose to learn, accept and understand the past. I'm not a proponent of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Feel like that is happening alot with American history across the board. Balance is everything. I do think organizations that do not accept and try to harness recruitment of younger members is ultimately choosing its own demise. You cannot sustain mission (even if changing) and existence without recruiting and developing new blood. That means accepting change and new ideas, even if you do not slightly agree with.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

I don't like to brag but I feel we went our way to be nice.Some youngsters just don't much care to be in the company of "old farts"

Obviously I'm not in the SVC but I will support Rusk County in this. I'm in the DAR but I'm in another, different group in NH. It is a totally different organization but I've been involved with them for at least 15 years. We have had some big changes in the last five. I personally LOVE and have always loved being with older people, especially since my grandfather was born in 1865 and I knew him well, and I'm now 65. Yes, we were those types of families that had kids later and everyone lived a long time. But…. This group I'm in wanted to NEVER do email and would state it clearly that they would never consent to email for notes or upcoming notifications - and when we do events and the public would come in - it had to be cash only and NO means for the public to use credit cards, etc. Their favorite saying was "cash is king." It finally changed after Covid when they realized the public wouldn't be coming to the next public event if they didn't accommodate the public and we finally got some younger people taking over the social media part. But it took some real wrenching within the organization to make it happen. They were just positive that running the same old B&W ads in a newspaper were going to attract attention. They didn't want to hear how irrelevant it had all become - but it had been working that way for YEARS - they just hadn't been reading the room because they didn't want to.

I can remember last year when our social committee put up QR codes and one of the members said, "we don't need QR codes - no one uses them." I spoke right up and said, well, I do and WE are not the target audience, btw. However, our membership has badly fallen like down to about 30 members state wide.

So… take these attitudes of "we are never going to do email" or the equivalency and layer it over whatever is going on with your SVC Camps, throw in some militancy that people might not be comfortable with, and I LOVE that phrase, "canteen alcoholism" and is it surprising A LOT of any of these organizations have closed? And it isn't military organizations that are folding up but a whole lot of fraternal ones too. By the time they realized their subject matter was seemingly irrelevant to the age around them, you couldn't get people to budge - like we found with the email issues, etc. You would think doing the most basic things would be simple but it usually isn't.

What we did was just do things via email and either they could join in or not. Sadly, they faded away but even booking places to have events is online now - not handwritten anymore or only with phone calls. We would have valued their input but they chose to live in the past.

The problem is… when the main leadership realizes it, it is too late and the changes are almost too late and people have moved on to something else to join or fill their time with. No one is interested in recreating the wheel.

 

[Cavalier]

I don't have any Confederate ancestors but I'm certainly not opposed to someone that does being part of the SCV. I belong to some fraternal organizations myself so who am I to judge someone else.

John

 

[G Low]

Obviously I'm not in the SVC but I will support Rusk County in this. I'm in the DAR but I'm in another, different group in NH. It is a totally different organization but I've been involved with them for at least 15 years. We have had some big changes in the last five. I personally LOVE and have always loved being with older people, especially since my grandfather was born in 1865 and I knew him well, and I'm now 65. Yes, we were those types of families that had kids later and everyone lived a long time. But…. This group I'm in wanted to NEVER do email and would state it clearly that they would never consent to email for notes or upcoming notifications - and when we do events and the public would come in - it had to be cash only and NO means for the public to use credit cards, etc. Their favorite saying was "cash is king." It finally changed after Covid when they realized the public wouldn't be coming to the next public event if they didn't accommodate the public and we finally got some younger people taking over the social media part. But it took some real wrenching within the organization to make it happen. They were just positive that running the same old B&W ads in a newspaper were going to attract attention. They didn't want to hear how irrelevant it had all become - but it had been working that way for YEARS - they just hadn't been reading the room because they didn't want to.

I can remember last year when our social committee put up QR codes and one of the members said, "we don't need QR codes - no one uses them." I spoke right up and said, well, I do and WE are not the target audience, btw. However, our membership has badly fallen like down to about 30 members state wide.

So… take these attitudes of "we are never going to do email" or the equivalency and layer it over whatever is going on with your SVC Camps, through in some militancy that people might not be comfortable with, and I LOVE that phrase, "canteen alcoholism" and is it surprising A LOT of any of these organizations have closed? And it isn't military organizations that are folding up but a whole lot of fraternal ones too. By the time they realized their subject matter was seemingly irrelevant to the age around them, you couldn't get people to budge - like we found with the email issues, etc. You would think doing the most basic things would be simple but it usually isn't.

What we did was just do things via email and either they could join in or not. Sadly, they faded away but even booking places to have events is online now - not handwritten anymore or only with phone calls. We would have valued their input but they chose to live in the past.

The problem is… when the main leadership realizes it, it is too late and the changes are almost too late and people have moved on to something else to join or fill their time with. No one is interested in recreating the wheel.

I used to love to read the svc news letter when I was a postman

 

[AshleyMel]

Obviously I'm not in the SVC but I will support Rusk County in this. I'm in the DAR but I'm in another, different group in NH. It is a totally different organization but I've been involved with them for at least 15 years. We have had some big changes in the last five. I personally LOVE and have always loved being with older people, especially since my grandfather was born in 1865 and I knew him well, and I'm now 65. Yes, we were those types of families that had kids later and everyone lived a long time. But…. This group I'm in wanted to NEVER do email and would state it clearly that they would never consent to email for notes or upcoming notifications - and when we do events and the public would come in - it had to be cash only and NO means for the public to use credit cards, etc. Their favorite saying was "cash is king." It finally changed after Covid when they realized the public wouldn't be coming to the next public event if they didn't accommodate the public and we finally got some younger people taking over the social media part. But it took some real wrenching within the organization to make it happen. They were just positive that running the same old B&W ads in a newspaper were going to attract attention. They didn't want to hear how irrelevant it had all become - but it had been working that way for YEARS - they just hadn't been reading the room because they didn't want to.

I can remember last year when our social committee put up QR codes and one of the members said, "we don't need QR codes - no one uses them." I spoke right up and said, well, I do and WE are not the target audience, btw. However, our membership has badly fallen like down to about 30 members state wide.

So… take these attitudes of "we are never going to do email" or the equivalency and layer it over whatever is going on with your SVC Camps, through in some militancy that people might not be comfortable with, and I LOVE that phrase, "canteen alcoholism" and is it surprising A LOT of any of these organizations have closed? And it isn't military organizations that are folding up but a whole lot of fraternal ones too. By the time they realized their subject matter was seemingly irrelevant to the age around them, you couldn't get people to budge - like we found with the email issues, etc. You would think doing the most basic things would be simple but it usually isn't.

What we did was just do things via email and either they could join in or not. Sadly, they faded away but even booking places to have events is online now - not handwritten anymore or only with phone calls. We would have valued their input but they chose to live in the past.

The problem is… when the main leadership realizes it, it is too late and the changes are almost too late and people have moved on to something else to join or fill their time with. No one is interested in recreating the wheel.

I'm not SCV either but i just had to express - Perfectly said Tina!
DAR has always been a great model of ways the UDC could improve and learn.
The 2020 violence and arson on the UDC building was certainly a point for the organization to realize the need for modernization in many areas of operations and preservation. Unfortunately it took such a horrific event to spur the work but, necessity is the mother of invention.
There are some that swore Zoom and online meeting would be the destruction of civilized society but it has actually opened up more opportunities for outreach and community.
Change can be hard for some and pride coupled with living through the lense of "this is how we've always done it" is, unfortunately, very frustrating and I know it has definitely hurt many of these organizations.
Even my quilting club is not immune and who would think there would be controversy there?!
Aside from a few bumps here and there our UDC Chapters actually work well with the SCV fellas out here and we are very thankful for our collaborations together.

 

[JackADriscoll]

When things are changing and someone doesn't want to you are basically calling them irrelevant or that is how they see it. One of the most important things we can do is stay relevant. I am not sure how the Confederate organizations can right the ship due to its optics problem.

The VFW has a great mission and I'm a life member but I've never set foot in one. They can be great therapy for folks that need it to be around like minded individuals but my life didn't stop 'over there ' and I have no desire to sit at a bar drinking well vodka listening to embellished stories.

I'm going to agree with Rusk pretty hard here.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

The VFW has a great mission and I'm a life member but I've never set foot in one

It's been closed in our town for quite a few years already.

 

[G Low]

I used to love to read the svc news letter when I was a postman

The recipient was a SCV member in a mechanized brigade I knew he would be a good patron when I saw the I ride with forest bumper sticker!!

 

[Doc_Ralph]

I'd be interested to hear what 'both sides' of CWT have to say about this.

Please bear with me, member since 2015 - but this is my first poll.

Did I represent the full range of poll answers?

Yeah if I had had a relative I would be a member for sure. I know I had a Yankee in a German immigrant volunteer regiment but he was out on disability within a year.

 

[major bill]

My VFW has been at over 100% assumed membership for 8 years in a row. We have many younger members and a reasonable amount of female members. The post does a lot more than sit and drink at the bar. We have a top class riders group (veterans on motorcycles) that do work for the summer camp for children and also supports the National Veterans Home, which happens to be in Michigan. The riders group does weekly trips. So dart league, bowling team, horseshoe team, golf team, amoung other activities. We also support boxing for teens. Oh and we do have some members who just drink at the club and tell tales.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

My VFW has been at over 100% assumed membership for 8 years in a row. We have many younger members and a reasonable amount of female members. The post does a lot more than sit and drink at the bar. We have a top class riders group (veterans on motorcycles) that do work for the summer camp for children and also supports the National Veterans Home, which happens to be in Michigan. The riders group does weekly trips. So dart league, bowling team, horseshoe team, golf team, amoung other activities. We also support boxing for teens. Oh and we do have some members who just drink at the club and tell tales.

But I think your VFW has probably had some strong leadership in the past and it's continuing in the present. And it is showing relevancy by reaching outside itself and doing good in the community - that's why it is continuing and has growing membership. It's not just an alcoholic canteen for tall tales.

We have a Grange in the next town over that is actually strong and growing when most have closed and sold off the building. They have strong leadership and have reached outside of themselves into the community and that's why they have survived and are attracting new members. They've dumped the secret society membership password stuff and made it again into something useful to the community for service. Just like your VFW - they are doing service for the community and people usually like doing that.

 

[7th Texas Mounted Rifles]

My VFW has been at over 100% assumed membership for 8 years in a row. We have many younger members and a reasonable amount of female members. The post does a lot more than sit and drink at the bar. We have a top class riders group (veterans on motorcycles) that do work for the summer camp for children and also supports the National Veterans Home, which happens to be in Michigan. The riders group does weekly trips. So dart league, bowling team, horseshoe team, golf team, amoung other activities. We also support boxing for teens. Oh and we do have some members who just drink at the club and tell tales.

My post as well, max membership.

We both know that the individual post leadership and their willingness to take on new initiatives is the determining factor on whether or not the post will 'appeal' to post-cold war vets. Attracting the newest batch of vets will determine if the VFW still exists in 20 years.

Between 1992 and 2019, the VFW reported a decline of more than one million members.

If National doesn't help to support this, it will eventually fail.

No offense meant - but the majority of OIF/OEF vets do not want dart tournaments, bowling leagues, horseshoes and bingo.

I remember several articles in the VFW magazine with what polled popular with the newer vets - it was stuff like tough-mudder runs and marathons, jeep jamborees, motorcyle events, rock climbing, kayak outings, 'habitat for humanity'-type projects, etc.

There have also been spotlight articles on several posts that have actually shut down/defunded their canteen and instead opted for coffee/internet/reading lounge type setups, video game centers, VA-assistance/VSO/employment assistance -type workcenters, and apparently doing so have found significant success.

Mine has river frontage/member exclusive access on the most desirable river in Texas, and the neighboring post has been organizing the local (legit) rodeo for 77 years running.

I'd hate to see the VFW fold, just because they couldn't modernize.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

My town used to have a VFW post, but it closed over a decade ago. The American Legion post, founded immediately after WW2, is hanging on but nowhere near as active in the community as they once were.

 

[G Low]

But I think your VFW has probably had some strong leadership in the past and it's continuing in the present. And it is showing relevancy by reaching outside itself and doing good in the community - that's why it is continuing and has growing membership. It's not just an alcoholic canteen for tall tales.

We have a Grange in the next town over that is actually strong and growing when most have closed and sold off the building. They have strong leadership and have reached outside of themselves into the community and that's why they have survived and are attracting new members. They've dumped the secret society membership password stuff and made it again into something useful to the community for service. Just like your VFW - they are doing service for the community and people usually like doing that.

My grandfather used to love the VFW he was a WWI vet & he lived in a dry county. Him and my dad (Korea vet) would visit often. Here is my grandfather and gg grandfather.

 

[JackADriscoll]

I sometimes wonder if membership in such organizations is down due to the nature of the recent conflicts.

 

[G Low]

I sometimes wonder if membership in such organizations is down due to the nature of the recent conflicts.

Its either that or the country is going down the toilet probably both!!

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

As technology develops faster, the pace at which technological changes leave the previous generation behind is accelerating, which widens the generation gap.

I don't think the men who fought in the American Civil War resent the Founding Fathers or the Clay-Webster-Calhoun general for failing to resolve the issue of slavery peacefully, nor did the Greatest Generation resent those who caused the Great Depression. But in the 21st century more younger people seem to resent for older generations for causing certain problems that exist today.

I've been at my job since the start of 2013, which includes staff in their 20s and 30s (and some teenage volunteers and interns) working with retiree volunteers. I think it's mostly positive, and some of the younger folks have developed strong bonds with some of the older folks - mentors and even surrogate family. Sometimes you do get older people who are resentful of taking direction from younger people. There are periodic problems with volunteers getting set in their ways - they learned something a certain way and getting them to unlearn it at their age is a challenge. When we switched from basic cash registers to a touch-screen point-of-sale system (and as someone who has never worked a cash register in their life, I must say it's a pretty straightforward system) we lost almost all of our gift shop volunteers; they wouldn't or couldn't adjust. But the new retiree volunteers seem like they are are coming in as steadily now as they were a decade ago, replacing the older volunteers who die or age out. If we're going to hit a generation that isn't interested in history that generation hasn't started retiring yet.

A big challenge with military history is how far out of the wheelhouse it is for a lot of people, even people interested in history. Military history has been my jam since I was a child; a lot of is second nature to me. I "grok" it about as well as anyone can who hasn't actually been in the service. But most of our current crop of volunteers are not veterans; they're mostly former teachers, white collar workers, and medical professionals. They can learn the general history, lighthouse history, pioneers, plants, even the Native Americans. But the military history we introduced, which requires zero knowledge of battle tactics? The only three volunteers who have been willing to learn that tour so far are among the handful of veterans. It's not that the volunteers are anti-military; they just find it too daunting because it's such unfamiliar territory for which they have little frame of reference.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

I sometimes wonder if membership in such organizations is down due to the nature of the recent conflicts.

In talking to my cousin who is a female Navy veteran. She's much more in line with @7th Texas Mounted Rifles those are the activities she is looking for. Her husband is a Navy vet too. They don't want dart boards etc.

Attitudes to drinking have changed too.

 

[7th Texas Mounted Rifles]

I sometimes wonder if membership in such organizations is down due to the nature of the recent conflicts.

If i may ask… How do you mean?

As in Vietnam being unpopular vs. the 'troop idolatry' of OIF/OEF?