SCV Poll

[Pollaco]

I'd like to see the percentage of those who are eligible to the percentage that actually are members. I got a feeling it would be a lopsided comparison.

 

[52ndFandS]

It is possible for several answers to be applicable

I think you're on to something there.

 

[MWood1841]

@7th Texas Mounted Rifles looks like it might start getting lively in here now!!
Hey, I appreciate the poll. Been awhile since I seen a SCV thread topic started. Even though your intention was initially just taking a simple poll. Lets see how far off the rails this one might go…….
For the sake of saying it. SCV, UDC, Sons of Union Vets, etc etc my hats off to all of ya. For those who dont agree or like those groups, hat tip to you as well.
Blessed and Grateful to be living in a free society and ability to join any of those mentioned groups that may tickle my fancy

 

[JackADriscoll]

Interest in our history is dying. If they keep it alive and maybe inspire some young minds to keep on then it's worth it. I'm leary of all the anger selling though. Anger sells well especially to men. Remember that when you are reading something you are the product.

 

[52ndFandS]

I was a member, but to be honest, for me at least, the tone of their advertising, articles, etc. were a huge turn off. I understand being proud of our Confederate heritage and history and wanting to preserve the memory of those who fought. However, most of the articles in their magazine, newsletters, emails, etc. came across as still fighting the war.

The tone of most seemed to be one of urgent deperation (we've got to do something now or our Southern heratige will be destroyed!!), one of anger, or both. One particulr thing that was a HUGE turnoff to me was the advertisement for their motorcycle groups. "Iron Cavalry" I believe they call it, calling on members to "be a man among men." . It comes across to me as posing and trying to blanket themselves with the valor of the Confederate cavalry. If you want to be a "man among men," joining a motorcycle group isn't going to make you one IMHO. Maybe I'm too sensative about it. Maybe they really do mean well. But the letters from the President, other officers, etc. all had that desperate, angry, and chip on their shoulder tone to me.

I think I may have been biased from the word go as, when I applied, they would not accept my g-g-grandfather as my proof of membership because they said he "signed loyalty to the Union" late in the war after being released as a POW (I had to use a g-g-uncle instead who "died for the cause" instead). Hey, if that's their rules fine, but again the war ended almost 160 years ago. There is only THE United States now. Loyalty to the Union? Yes, we should all have it.

Anyway, I answered the poll Am/Was a Member, but there's more behind the answer, and I hope others thinking of joining will consider my reasons and those of others who may have left the SCV before they join. It may be right for some, but the SCV wasn't right for me.

@7th Texas Mounted Rifles looks like it might start getting lively in here now!!
Hey, I appreciate the poll. Been awhile since I seen a SCV thread topic started. Even though your intention was initially just taking a simple poll. Lets see how far off the rails this one might go…….
For the sake of saying it. SCV, UDC, Sons of Union Vets, etc etc my hats off to all of ya. For those who dont agree or like those groups, hat tip to you as well.
Blessed and Grateful to be living in a free society and ability to join any of those mentioned groups that may tickle my fancy

This could turn into a true train wreak. Tip of that to all as well.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

Interest in our history is dying. If they keep it alive and maybe inspire some young minds to keep on then it's worth it. I'm leary of all the anger selling though. Anger sells well especially to men. Remember that when you are reading something you are the product.

I wouldn't say it's dying, but I think it's struggling in some ways, particularly among non-retirees. And it's all history, not just about the American Civil War.

Lots of alternative forms of entertainment that weren't available until the last couple decades, and they provide a lot of competition. But on weekends people are still driving for hours to visit lighthouses.

It's not just history. Civic engagement is down in general.

Selling history on anger will find some audience, but it really turns off a larger portion of your potential audience for whom history is ultimately recreation, not a way of life. I live and breath history, professionally and otherwise, and even I have no interesting in reading about how "so-and-so was just the worst in every way!" Besides, if guzzling anger is your idea of fun there are plenty of cable news networks that can service you accordingly - no history needed.

I don't think selling history on hero worship is the answer either; that was done for too long and has came to ring hollow.

You can be enthusiastic about history without needing to make it about heroes to cheer and villains to jeer, and enthusiasm is contagious. "This is interesting, and you've probably never heard about it before!"

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

I voted other, and feel the need to speak up.

I joined the SCV back in 2015, dedicated a LOT of my time to trying to get stuff done, but was constantly followed by me being a millennial and automatically a commie in some eyes. Pushed hard for recruitment and even stocked up with many things out of my pocket for the SCV and did public displays on my own dime. But I was vocal. Very vocal, in calling for reform, recruitment, (I was literally shouted down in one brigade meeting and chastised by the camp I represented for saying we needed to recruit new and younger members), and endured a lot. All for the cause.

That being said, there was a certain centerpiece event, nationally, I stepped up to get involved and help, was talked down to by certain folks at National for doing so, and when I found proof of them doing some very disgraceful un-Confederate things, I was ashamed and stepped up and called them out. I was charged with things, and told I could only remain a member if I agreed to never speak on anything again. The compromise Texas Division got for me, was me not have a voice. Period.

After that there was a certain local reenactment, the officers running re-enactments around here made a ton of promises to the landowner, and weren't keeping them. Those same promise breakers also being the Louisiana cabal that maintains an iron grip on National leadership. Or at least did, I don't know now. I stepped up to fulfill those promises, put my own sweat and time to it for nothing other than keeping that event alive and everyone having a good time. And beside heavily recommending some fresh ideas into the event instead of the same old wore out scenarios, asked nothing in return.

Oh I became a sorry so and so for that!

I was booted from the SCV for some trumped up charge, still don't know completely why after National had a raging fit and I was told Texas Division kinda put in a jam, all because I was viewed as a threat I reckon, to people's power I'd guess. Even forced out of my reenactment unit! I was "cancelled" by the SCV's leaders.

So now the SCV in my area is practically dead, that reenactment event is a shambles after the landowner had enough broken promises, and also corrupt doings with the moneys I'm told, with its continued existence in question. And I'm heading up a museum exhibit locally on the Confederate Army, because the museum couldn't get what's left of the SCV to do anything. And they have a camp meeting there!

Sorry for the long post, but it's a long story. Take a guess on my opinion of the SCV.

And guess what I did to a letter begging me back recently!

 

[Biscoitos]

I detest the liberal proclamations of political correctness on anything they decide not to agree with, especially the appreciation of HISTORY and heritage, including that of the Civil War. They can Go Pound Sand. I will say no more in order to avoid an off-topic essay.

"to avoid an off topic essay" and for me, to avoid a cussing fit that would make a drunk sailor blush.

The SCV (and UDC) will never admit the Confederacy and secession were wrong, so regardless of all other factors that is the easy no-go for me.

But lots of other reasons on top of that...

I'm not interested in joining a Union lineage society either.

Despite my interest in history and genealogy, I have no desire to join any lineage society. It seems silly to me that there are so many: Mayflower, Colonial Dames, DAC, DAR, etc. I'd rather have one genealogy society where you can earn badges.

Even then it seems like a lot of people are into these groups because they think having an ancestor farther back makes them special or better or more of a "Real American."

Organizations for adults that are gender segregated also annoy me on principle (unless they have a really good reason). I would never join the masons because of that (among other reasons). SCV and UDC are never going to merge because they appeal to the kind of people who hate change.

We are all entitled to have our own opinions.
But sometimes we fail to realize that our opinions are not fact.
Live and let live is a good policy.
Even if the thought police are determined to force everyone to be like them in thought, speech, travel, eating habits, clothing, housing, spending habits, and every other sphere of life.

 

[Scott1967]

No2 for me its important the South remembers its heritage no matter how distasteful that might be I'm all for honouring Confederate soldiers not so much the politician's.

Its also important to remember those Southerners who fought for the Union cause who often get overlooked like the British loyalists in the AWI.

 

[7th Texas Mounted Rifles]

You can be enthusiastic about history without needing to make it about heroes to cheer and villains to jeer

Well said.

An ACW historian shouldn't 'pick sides' so as to have a thorough viewpoint of the entire conflict.

 

[7th Texas Mounted Rifles]

I joined the SCV back in 2015, dedicated a LOT of my time to trying to get stuff done, but was constantly followed by me being a millennial and automatically a commie in some eyes. Pushed hard for recruitment and even stocked up with many things out of my pocket for the SCV and did public displays on my own dime. But I was vocal. Very vocal, in calling for reform, recruitment, (I was literally shouted down in one brigade meeting and chastised by the camp I represented for saying we needed to recruit new and younger members), and endured a lot. All for the cause.

Did you consider conscription as a means to up the participation?

 

[JerryD]

That's a strange idea. Like expecting the 'Lincoln Society' to denounce Lincoln and blame him for the war.

I dont think its strange at all. As someone who has several CSA ancestors I realize I can respect their service while still understanding that secession was wrong and completely the act of irrational fear of what might happen, all for no good reason. But it strikes me that one of the main causes of the SCV is not just honor service, but to defend the decision to start a war to begin with, so no thanks. That war was a complete disaster for the south. It went from the richest area of the country to an economic backwater for the next 100 plus years. So celebrating secession is kind of like celebrating a car crash that killed your family, in my mind.

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

Did you consider conscription as a means to up the participation?

Can't say I did.

Conscripts are unwilling participants, and no current members wanted to volunteer. Or do anything historical for that matter. Just me and and a buddy do the legwork them thank us, and take credit.

Didn't want to engage with the public, unless it was on their terms, and all around no desire to fulfill "The Charge" that's supposedly so important.

The SCV is a terrible organization of old farts who have power-hungry old farts at the top, old farts running camps, ZERO desire to know history, preferring the 1950's-1960's Hollyweird portrayal, having the camps as a Hollywood-Confederate themed club, with a handful of naive true "Sons of the South" trying to honor they're heritage sticking around and or involved and standing tall hoping they can turn the eventual doom of the SCV around and or just do what it's mission is.

It's a shame, cause it's mission is a noble one.

But I will stick up for them on one matter, there's a lot of veterans involved and they all look at Confederate Veterans as American veterans. Maybe not at the national level, but screw them. They can't keep their own house in order never mind the organization!

 

[archieclement]

I dont think its strange at all. As someone who has several CSA ancestors I realize I can respect their service while still understanding that secession was wrong and completely the act of irrational fear of what might happen, all for no good reason. But it strikes me that one of the main causes of the SCV is not just honor service, but to defend the decision to start a war to begin with, so no thanks. That war was a complete disaster for the south. It went from the richest area of the country to an economic backwater for the next 100 plus years. So celebrating secession is kind of like celebrating a car crash thtat killed your family, in my mind.

The SCV camp I belonged to never celebrated secession, it simply honored their service. Never had an impression the members defended secession at all. Many were actually rather proud US veterans.

It actually was mainly simply cemetary/grave preservation.

 

[JerryD]

I voted other, and feel the need to speak up.

I joined the SCV back in 2015, dedicated a LOT of my time to trying to get stuff done, but was constantly followed by me being a millennial and automatically a commie in some eyes. Pushed hard for recruitment and even stocked up with many things out of my pocket for the SCV and did public displays on my own dime. But I was vocal. Very vocal, in calling for reform, recruitment, (I was literally shouted down in one brigade meeting and chastised by the camp I represented for saying we needed to recruit new and younger members), and endured a lot. All for the cause.

That being said, there was a certain centerpiece event, nationally, I stepped up to get involved and help, was talked down to by certain folks at National for doing so, and when I found proof of them doing some very disgraceful un-Confederate things, I was ashamed and stepped up and called them out. I was charged with things, and told I could only remain a member if I agreed to never speak on anything again. The compromise Texas Division got for me, was me not have a voice. Period.

After that there was a certain local reenactment, the officers running re-enactments around here made a ton of promises to the landowner, and weren't keeping them. Those same promise breakers also being the Louisiana cabal that maintains an iron grip on National leadership. Or at least did, I don't know now. I stepped up to fulfill those promises, put my own sweat and time to it for nothing other than keeping that event alive and everyone having a good time. And beside heavily recommending some fresh ideas into the event instead of the same old wore out scenarios, asked nothing in return.

Oh I became a sorry so and so for that!

I was booted from the SCV for some trumped up charge, still don't know completely why after National had a raging fit and I was told Texas Division kinda put in a jam, all because I was viewed as a threat I reckon, to people's power I'd guess. Even forced out of my reenactment unit! I was "cancelled" by the SCV's leaders.

So now the SCV in my area is practically dead, that reenactment event is a shambles after the landowner had enough broken promises, and also corrupt doings with the moneys I'm told, with its continued existence in question. And I'm heading up a museum exhibit locally on the Confederate Army, because the museum couldn't get what's left of the SCV to do anything. And they have a camp meeting there!

Sorry for the long post, but it's a long story. Take a guess on my opinion of the SCV.

And guess what I did to a letter begging me back recently!

Almost sounds like a historical reenactment of the operational model of the CSA government...

 

[archieclement]

It may vary by camps......but my warning based on camp I belonged to, is if expecting much history, it might not be for you.

I guess I expected more like a similarity to ACW roundtables with ACW discussion like forum or roundtables, with presentations..........instead was very cemetary/grave oriented. Benefits were occasionally done for perhaps a historical marker for some unmarked site.

 

[JerryD]

It may vary by camps......but my warning based on camp I belonged to, is if expecting much history, it might not be for you.

I guess I expected more like a ACW roundtable with ACW discussion like forum or roundtables, with presentations..........instead was very cemetary/grave oriented.

That would be a cause I would be all too happy to support. Respect.

 

[ETNConfederate]

Well said.

An ACW historian shouldn't 'pick sides' so as to have a thorough viewpoint of the entire conflict.

"It would be foolish to pretend that Dr. Freeman's history was at all times completely objective. It was scholarly and it was fair, but it was never detached or passionless. It would be poorer history if it were these things."

Bruce Catton, quoted by Professor Gary Gallagher in the 1998 introduction to The South To Posterity. Dr. Freeman is one of ten people who have been awarded multiple Pulitzer Prizes for biography; one for R. E. Lee and the other for George Washington.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

If someone is reading this who is not a member of the SCV but wants to see the Confederate veteran allowed the same level of honor & respect as U.S. Veterans

And therein lies the rub.

Confederates are Americans and veterans, but they fought against the lawful authority of the United States government, with flimsy justification. They are worthy of respect in the sense that anyone willing to risk their life for what they believe in is worthy of respect. But because of what they fought for, and who they fought against, it's hard to justify giving them an equal level of honor with U.S. servicemen.

Should Native Americans warriors who fought against the USA and killed America citizens be equally honored as U.S. servicemen? What about Loyalists in the American Revolution?

What would you think of a Hispanic heritage group that wanted to raise a monument in Texas to the memory of all the Mexican soldiers, including their ancestors, who died in the Texas Revolution and Mexican-American War?

 

[7th Texas Mounted Rifles]

"It would be foolish to pretend that Dr. Freeman's history was at all times completely objective. It was scholarly and it was fair, but it was never detached or passionless. It would be poorer history if it were these things."

Bruce Catton, quoted by Professor Gary Gallagher in the 1998 introduction to The South To Posterity. Dr. Freeman is one of ten people who have been awarded multiple Pulitzer Prizes for biography; one for R. E. Lee and the other for George Washington.

They say that it is impossible to write and stay impartial… even unintended, it apparently comes through to the reader.