Quantrill. Good soldier?

[Booner]

One of the reasons for the raid on lawerence was in retribution for the sacking of Osceola, Mo by the Kansas Jayhawks on Sept 22-23, 1861. Led by Lane, the Jayhawkers burned all but 3 of 800 buildings and executed 9 men.

I'm writing this on a new-to-me tablet and haven't figured out how to copy a link on it. For information on the Sacking of Osceola, please go to

"civilwaronthewesternborder.org and look for "The sacking of Osceola"

I thought it was very interesting that in 2011, the aldermen of Osceola
Requested that the University of Kansas stop using the term "Jayhawks" and to lower case letters for "Kansas" and "ku" as in their opinion "neither is a proper name or place"

Out here, we didn't have the big battles like they did back east, but our feelings about the war still run strong

 

[peteanddelmar]

W.C. Quantrill held first a commision as a Capt. given to him by Cpl. G, Thompson in the summer of 1862 for assisting in the recuitment drives in Missouri, this commission was approved by Gen.Hindman CG of the trans Miss Dept. In the winter of 62 he went to Richmond and obtained a commision as a Capitan of Partisan Rangers under the Partisan Ranger Act, he was looking for a commssioin as a Colonel,and later claimed to his men that he had recieved that rank.

His Independant Commission stood until April of 64 when the CSA repealed the Partisan Ranger act, but he was not the only one to lose his rank all partisans not joining regular forces were disavowed by the CSA, With the exceptions of Mosbey and McNiell unless they joined the Regular Army.

Did the Raid on Lawerance have something to do with it?Possibly.Did the ivory tower that Davis and Lee stood on have something to do with it?Possibly.But the end of the act did nothing to stop Partisan actions anywhere it simply took the CSA out of the equation in the CSA's mind.

Guerilla war is nasty it doesn't come with uniforns and rules and that was what Missouri was on both sides.

Was WCQ a solider?He was an excellent raider and mounted commander, he was an excellant Partisan leader, but the argument canbe made he had no stake in anything but WCQ.

General Hindman was ruthless and committed war crimes, and Shelby was no cream puff.
Anything given by Hindman would be suspect to me. Everyone wanted away from him. Apparently even Patrick Cleburne.
So, Hindmans commission doesn't do much to improve Quantrills image.

 

[Borderruffian]

General Hindman was ruthless and committed war crimes, and Shelby was no cream puff.
Anything given by Hindman would be suspect to me. Everyone wanted away from him. Apparently even Patrick Cleburne.
So, Hindmans commission doesn't do much to improve Quantrills image.

Regardless of your and Pat Cleburns opinion of Hindman it's fact that he was authorized under the Partisan Ranger Act to comission officers in that service and foster the type of warfare fostered by that service.WCQ was commissioned in that service whether helped his image or not,it occured.
Yes Tom Hindman had a different read on the Act,yes Hindman wanted to open a 3rd front in the Trans-Miss,yes Hindman enforced the Conscription Act in Arkansas,yes he wanted an all out invasion of Missouri,yes he was replaced by Granny Holmes for (I think not following the dictant,s of Jeff Davis) Hindman was a total war type of General, the CSA leadership were to worried about appearing like knights on white chargers. They would']n't, couldn't wrap their feeble little minds around the fact that the Trans-Miss was important to their war effort and that just maybe it could not be fought the same way war was fought in the class rooms at the Point or on the stalemated fields of Ol' Virginny Being such ami;itary genius the High and Mighty (with his paws in every military decision) Jefferson Davis should have realized this given his West Point Edumaction and experiance as SECWAR. But I guess Jeff booted that one just like he booted the West.

 

[Borderruffian]

"In reality if you don't look at the bloodshed and looting and burning that did occur or the drunkeness that likely fueled at least part of it then Lawrence the infiltration of Ewings border defense and the surprise with which the town was struck it was a military coup for WCQ not that I condone the killing of unarmed men and boys (and make no mistake they were unarmed) but it was a masterful stroke on the part of the Bushwhackers."

Well heck, if we don't look at all the killing and looting and bloodshed the Civil War was a great time of peace!

Well, if you look at his being able to muster for this raid 400 or su raiders(including Col Holt's Recruit draft). Penetrate the much vaunted Border Defense System of Gen.Ewing, striking Lawrence by complete surprise, bnot losing a amn ,except the drunken used to preacher who stayed behind (yes I know the citizens where not armed ) and getting back to Missouri pretty much intact...then yes it was a well turned Mission and Raid.

Yes things were done in Lawrence that were beyond the pale and make the mission an atorcity Quantrill never even reported to Price or any other CS General Officer,which leads me to believe that he knew it was beyond the pale of even Partisan warfare, In fact the Only offical report filed was one on Baxter Springs and that only because he thought he'd killed General Blunt

Yes there was bloodshed and burning and looting, however my point was that the march to and the egress from Lawrence was a good bit of work on his part, not the actual events in Lawrance,.You may not like WCQ (I don't) But the march to and the retreart from was a good piece of work.

 

[Borderruffian]

I for one would. A murderer is a murderer regardless of the color of the uniform.

I guarantee you if Quantrill had done the same actions under the US flag the usual suspects would raise a hue n cry. But as he fought for the slaveocracy he is their hero.

William Clarke Quantrill fought for William Clarke Quantrill period end of statement. Yes he may have given mouth service to the CS, but that's where he thought his biscuit was buttered and he could get the adulation and celebrity he wanted, he'd have fought for the Prussians if thought he could get that there and turn a few bucks in the orocess.

 

[Borderruffian]

In reading about Quantrill, I wouldn't call him a good soldier. As a leader, though, he showed skill in irregular actions with his band, able to blend in, get in and attack with small units, and get out and evade pursuit.

But following events like the Lawrence Massacre I would say he was more of a butcher and a murderer than a soldier. Such actions weren't tolerated, even by the Confederate government.

Well the Cs government had little to nothing to do with his slide into being a none leader in the partisans that credit goes to Bill Anderson and George Todd who broke away in early 6 in that order. Yes he would have lost the Independnt Commission but that I doubt would have mattered he also lost Bill Gregg to the Regular CS army and probably a few more .
Regardless of the feelings in Richmond about him a very much doubt WCQ have a hoot or holler.

 

[damYankee]

The war in Missouri and Kansas was some of the bloodiest of the war, the hatred and the grudges were personal and the participants gave little ground to the enemy. Did Quantrill ever take prisoners?
I doubt it, even when uniformed men surrendered they were killed, he did not fight by rules.

 

[Patrick H]

The war in Missouri and Kansas was some of the bloodiest of the war, the hatred and the grudges were personal and the participants gave little ground to the enemy. Did Quantrill ever take prisoners?
I doubt it, even when uniformed men surrendered they were killed, he did not fight by rules.

Quantrill DID take prisoners. It was usually in hopes of trading for a captive guerrilla. In one instance, the guerrilla was hung, but Quantrill still paroled the yankee officer who was his captive. For whatever reason, he protected a small group of civilians in Lawrence, too. I still don't fully understand this last incident. I think they must have been people who were nice to him when he was living as his Charley Hart persona before the war. However, that is purely my own speculation. You can't put any stock in my personal speculation about Quantrill.

 

[Lost Cause]

For whatever reason, he protected a small group of civilians in Lawrence, too. I still don't fully understand this last incident.

I am not sure either. Only speculating, but perhaps he knew them while a teacher in Lawrence before the war.

 

[leftyhunter]

The war in Missouri and Kansas was some of the bloodiest of the war, the hatred and the grudges were personal and the participants gave little ground to the enemy. Did Quantrill ever take prisoners?
I doubt it, even when uniformed men surrendered they were killed, he did not fight by rules.

Amazingly enough even Sam Hilderbrand took prisoners some times and he was at least as psycho has our friend WCQ.
Leftyhunter

 

[Patrick H]

I doubt it, even when uniformed men surrendered they were killed, he did not fight by rules.

When you see this sort of thing written about a Missouri guerrilla, it is usually referring to Anderson and it is usually during or after the summer of 1864. The significance of the time frame is that this is after Quantrill lost control of his command to Todd and Anderson.

 

[damYankee]

Quantrill DID take prisoners. It was usually in hopes of trading for a captive guerrilla. In one instance, the guerrilla was hung, but Quantrill still paroled the yankee officer who was his captive. For whatever reason, he protected a small group of civilians in Lawrence, too. I still don't fully understand this last incident. I think they must have been people who were nice to him when he was living as his Charley Hart persona before the war. However, that is purely my own speculation. You can't put any stock in my personal speculation about Quantrill.

He took hostages. Guerrilla fighters seldom take prisoners because they operate on the run with little supplies also it drained manpower to guard prisoners and hampered the hit and run tactics of that style of warfare.

 

[Lost Cause]

He took hostages. Guerrilla fighters seldom take prisoners because they operate on the run with little supplies also it drained manpower to guard prisoners and hampered the hit and run tactics of that style of warfare.

Centralia was an example. The hit and run tactics of the guerrilla war were not far removed from Native American fighting tactics.

 

[alexjack]

As far as Missouri and Kansas were concerned never was there a truer saying than, ' One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.'

 

[Patrick H]

Centralia was an example. The hit and run tactics of the guerrilla war were not far removed from Native American fighting tactics.

That is absolutely correct, but, again, Centralia was Anderson's work. Quantrill wasn't at that fight.

 

[Lost Cause]

That is absolutely correct, but, again, Centralia was Anderson's work. Quantrill wasn't at that fight.

I know , I should have clarified Anderson. Oops

 

[Borderruffian]

The war in Missouri and Kansas was some of the bloodiest of the war, the hatred and the grudges were personal and the participants gave little ground to the enemy. Did Quantrill ever take prisoners?
I doubt it, even when uniformed men surrendered they were killed, he did not fight by rules.

In the beginning union troops were taken relieved of thier equipment and paroled regularly by WCQ, Hallcks order brought on the no quarter phase of the war, Quantrill first used that no quarter at Little Blue bridge and generally used no quarter after that although some federals were taken and paroled after that, how many Partisans were were confined or paoled after Hallacks order?

 

[Borderruffian]

Quantrill DID take prisoners. It was usually in hopes of trading for a captive guerrilla. In one instance, the guerrilla was hung, but Quantrill still paroled the yankee officer who was his captive. For whatever reason, he protected a small group of civilians in Lawrence, too. I still don't fully understand this last incident. I think they must have been people who were nice to him when he was living as his Charley Hart persona before the war. However, that is purely my own speculation. You can't put any stock in my personal speculation about Quantrill.

At the Eldridge Hotel Capt.Banks surrendered early in the raid and WCQ agreed to treat him and the people at the Eldridge as Prisoners of war, when they were threatened by some raiders he had them moved to the City Hotel owned by Nathan Stone a former friend for protection. The City Hotel was the one place of limits during the raid by WCQ's order.

 

[Bee]

The hit and run tactics of the guerrilla war were not far removed from Native American fighting tactics.

As far as Missouri and Kansas were concerned never was there a truer saying than, ' One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.'

I have a family member who likes to say that the Apache were the original terrorists (he says it with a wink and a bit of pride)

 

[alexjack]

I have a family member who likes to say that the Apache were the original terrorists (he says it with a wink and a bit of pride)

Was it Sherman who described the Apache as " The incorrigibly hostile."