Quantrill. Good soldier?

[diane]

Was it Sherman who described the Apache as " The incorrigibly hostile."

They were the last ones down! I have a T-shirt:

 

[Lost Cause]

I have a family member who likes to say that the Apache were the original terrorists (he says it with a wink and a bit of pride)

I once worked with an older gentleman fifteen years ago who talked about driving to California from the east coast, but was afraid to go through Arizona because of indian attacks
.

 

[Patrick H]

They were the last ones down! I have a T-shirt:

Where can I get one?

 

[diane]

Where can I get one?

I got mine at a booth at a powwow but I think Cafepress has them!

 

[Patrick H]

I got mine at a booth at a powwow but I think Cafepress has them!

Gotcha!

 

[Poor Private]

we see those Tees all the time here in Michigan. There are a few Indian vendors who show up at our local flea market and has different kinds.

 

[Bee]

Was it Sherman who described the Apache as " The incorrigibly hostile."

No, I think it was one of my teachers

Sherman did have issues with us (I will look this up)

 

[Bee]

They were the last ones down! I have a T-shirt:

MUST.HAVE.THIS!!!!

 

[Lnwlf]

Back to Quantrill please.

 

[peteanddelmar]

Regardless of your and Pat Cleburns opinion of Hindman it's fact that he was authorized under the Partisan Ranger Act to comission officers in that service and foster the type of warfare fostered by that service.WCQ was commissioned in that service whether helped his image or not,it occured.
Yes Tom Hindman had a different read on the Act,yes Hindman wanted to open a 3rd front in the Trans-Miss,yes Hindman enforced the Conscription Act in Arkansas,yes he wanted an all out invasion of Missouri,yes he was replaced by Granny Holmes for (I think not following the dictant,s of Jeff Davis) Hindman was a total war type of General, the CSA leadership were to worried about appearing like knights on white chargers. They would']n't, couldn't wrap their feeble little minds around the fact that the Trans-Miss was important to their war effort and that just maybe it could not be fought the same way war was fought in the class rooms at the Point or on the stalemated fields of Ol' Virginny Being such ami;itary genius the High and Mighty (with his paws in every military decision) Jefferson Davis should have realized this given his West Point Edumaction and experiance as SECWAR. But I guess Jeff booted that one just like he booted the West.

Agreed. But Hindman hanged, without court martial, at least, hundreds of men he considered traitors.
Shelby did, but not as bad.
Hindmans maniacal hatred of anyone less fanatical than he thought proper, was disliked and hated by many.
Somebody assassinated him.

For a source, see histories of Joe Shelby. Pick one.

 

[Borderruffian]

Agreed. But Hindman hanged, without court martial, at least, hundreds of men he considered traitors.
Shelby did, but not as bad.
Hindmans maniacal hatred of anyone less fanatical than he thought proper, was disliked and hated by many.
Somebody assassinated him.

For a source, see histories of Joe Shelby. Pick one.

Yes he did and yes so did J.O. Shelby and other officers especially in the Trans-Miss and especially as the war went on. Hindman was by no-means a great General but he was far from the worst ever given command of that Department nor was he the worst of all the CS Generals in total regardless of Dept.

I've read several Shelby Biographies so I know what you mean although I can barely get through any thing that is written by John Newman Edwards , that purple prose grates on me.

 

[Booner]

I think as a summer project I should study how the guerrilla war changed here in Missouri over the time span of 1861-1865

 

[Borderruffian]

I think as a summer project I should study how the guerrilla war changed here in Missouri over the time span of 1861-1865

It's interesting as heck look too at the the way the Department Commanders and district commanders edicts and general orders gave the Partisan bands greater support among the civilian populace, as well as the actions of Jeff City legislture drivins other Conditional Unionists and Nuetrals to the Brush or the CS Army.

There is a big perception that the partisans and their supporters were the only ones responsible for the guerilla war in Missouri and Kansas but if you study it in total from all sides the Unionist share a good bit of blame for the way it snow balled into,in olaces utter chaos.

The first Union Volunteers, the EMM, the PEMM , the MSM, RedLegs, Jayhawkers all share some blame that festered until the state was a killing ground with very little compassion from one side towards the other.

 

[Booner]

Borderruffian,
Very well said
I was just riding around town the other day and noticed a sign that said "Civil War Trail" with an arrow below the sign. What was interesting was they had a picture on the sign of who? Bloody Bill Anderson.
In 1864, my new home town was right in the center of all the major guerrilla activity in Missouri.
Fayette, Glasgow, Centrailia are all within an easy drive. Quantrill was hanging out with his girlfriend just across the river. Roachport, Bloody Bill's self proclaimed "Capital"is less than 10 miles from here.
My point being of my rambling is this; when you have a guerrilla war within the context of a larger civil war that is litterally in your back yard, you view it differently than that of a person who would only know about it from what they've read.
I can't help but think that if I had been a young man living here 150+ years ago, that I may have ridden with those "Boys of the Bush"

 

[leftyhunter]

I think as a summer project I should study how the guerrilla war changed here in Missouri over the time span of 1861-1865

Hi Booner.
Have you read Bruce Nikols series on the war in Missouri? They are beautifully illustrated and very well researched. They ain't cheap either. Try Amazon or Abebools if they have a used edition. They go for the same price as a nice bottle of Scotch.
Leftyhunter

 

[Booner]

Lefty,
I've got one of his books, volume 4 I think. I think it covers 1864 up to September. It covers the most active time of the guerrilla activity here in central Missouri. I do want to get the whole series though. All of my books are in boxes in my mother's basement until I buy a house--hopefully in another couple of months!

And my taste in Scotch is pretty expensive--i like the single malts

 

[CSA Today]

I once worked with an older gentleman fifteen years ago who talked about driving to California from the east coast, but was afraid to go through Arizona because of indian attacks
.

He wouldn't want to drive through Robeson, Scotland or Hoke Counties North Carolina – it can still happened there.

 

[Borderruffian]

Borderruffian,
Very well said
I was just riding around town the other day and noticed a sign that said "Civil War Trail" with an arrow below the sign. What was interesting was they had a picture on the sign of who? Bloody Bill Anderson.
In 1864, my new home town was right in the center of all the major guerrilla activity in Missouri.
Fayette, Glasgow, Centrailia are all within an easy drive. Quantrill was hanging out with his girlfriend just across the river. Roachport, Bloody Bill's self proclaimed "Capital"is less than 10 miles from here.
My point being of my rambling is this; when you have a guerrilla war within the context of a larger civil war that is litterally in your back yard, you view it differently than that of a person who would only know about it from what they've read.
I can't help but think that if I had been a young man living here 150+ years ago, that I may have ridden with those "Boys of the Bush"

Yes in 64 there was alot of Guerilla activity in Central and East Central Missouri, near me is Danville, High Hill,and New Florence the ones you mentioned are an easy drive, every thing was done in conjunction with Prices dismal raid of 64 but it really brought home the war to some counties and towns that had seen very little of the war if any since 61 the biggest threats being some southern sympathizers so called disloyal men and women (whether they were disloyal or had just rankled a nieghbor) being sent to Gratiot or Alton prisons or forced to pay bonds to the Provost Marshal or have property confiscated if they could'nt this part of the state was a regular little bit of back biting.

 

[Waterloo50]

Oh, we need @Patrick H in here!

I tend to think Quantrill started off more or less on the right path - he was a partisan ranger and under the Confederacy's Partisan Ranger Act was definitely a captain - but he sure attracted some of the most violent partisans in the war. I think you have to understand the background of why the war in Missouri was so violent and personal to understand why Quantrill was who he was.

That seem like a very fair comment, look at the man in context and then make a judgement.

 

[Waterloo50]

I can't help but think that if I had been a young man living here 150+ years ago, that I may have ridden with those "Boys of the Bush"

I like your style. Booner the Bushman Bandit.