Please help identify two pieces History

[Gettysburg Echos]

That is a signal cannon for sure, as far as your sword goes it looks very much like an Eagle Pommel Dyer Type, 19th century. The main difference is no shield and your grip is worn from honest use. You mentioned numbers on your weapon, I could not see them but they are generally bench marks put there to identify the person who made or put it together. Hope I have shed a little light for you.

 

[Glen_C]

Is this the mark you are mentioning? It looks added to me and I really can't make sense of it.

 

[Glen_C]

That is a signal cannon for sure, as far as your sword goes it looks very much like an Eagle Pommel Dyer Type, 19th century. The main difference is no shield and your grip is worn from honest use. You mentioned numbers on your weapon, I could not see them but they are generally bench marks put there to identify the person who made or put it together. Hope I have shed a little light for you.

View attachment 77089

That is my sword and photography. Jen's sword really doesn't bear any resemblance to it. I don't mean to be curt or disagreeable but I think as you explore and share my files, you may find I have some knowledge on the matter. Especially when comparing a sword from the first decade of the 1800s made in England vs a generic copy of a Berger from Germany in the 1830s.

It is a bit like saying all katana look the same

Cheers

GC

 

[Gettysburg Echos]

That is my sword and photography. Jen's sword really doesn't bear any resemblance to it. I don't mean to be curt or disagreeable but I think as you explore and share my files, you may find I have some knowledge on the matter. Especially when comparing a sword from the first decade of the 1800s made in England vs a generic copy of a Berger from Germany in the 1830s.

It is a bit like saying all katana look the same

Cheers

GC

I am sure you are correct and far from being curt. In my opinion it Looks Similar, never said it's the same as it clearly is not.

 

[Glen_C]

I am sure you are correct and far from being curt. In my opinion it Looks Similar, never said it's the same as it clearly is not.

Well, "it looks very much like an Eagle Pommel Dyer Type" and then "Looks similar" are much like I mentioned the way many look at swords. On a scale of ten, the only real visual similarities are the grip color and that it is an eagle pommel. Truly, all components of the two are completely different.

Jen's sword grip has obviously (imo) been replaced. I had posted examples that are true siblings of Jen's sword and background for them.

Browse through those folders on my drive and you may see the visual differences and similarities to the Solingen swords. Sharing my images is fine with me but it does invite my commenting on them and differing with your opinion, if only to clarify what they represent. Perhaps I was just startled to see the Dyer type posted out of context. Look to the German, Berger, misc and unsorted folders for examples of Jen's sword.

There are many good books for American swords and for the eagles, here are some of the required reading if interested in eagle pommel swords.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0960309411/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0917218361/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0917218787/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0917218507/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/091059810X/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SCV79GC/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000TBGWMA/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

Two out of print and highly sought selling at original retail. He must have come across some boxes of them. Get them while they last.

Don Furr American Swords
http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=38957

Hamilton Ames Sword Company
http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=38963

There are other such as Bezdek's books valuable for makers lists but individual sword info sparse.

Another companion primer to Peterson's for early American sword is Neumann's Swords and Blades of the American Revolution
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1880655004/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

Some are better than others for the later swords. The Medicus collection is a good flash card deck. Those are some of the books I go to for eagle information. An amount of older information needs amendment.

Cheers

GC

 

[coloradoJen]

Small cannons of this size have been made for many years... The type you have was a popular curio display item during the 1950-60's era, but yours may also predate that time period...

They came in a variety of different styles and intended uses.... There were some that could be fired... black powder.. carbide... and fire crackers... back yard noise makers... not really "signal guns"... per-se... Others solely made for decorative purposes... abet some folks may try to fire them... I had a couple of them when a kid and would certainly do so.... even if they weren't suppose to be used for such... A splatter of black powder and use a fire cracker fuse... boom... Had one that the breach blew out... so I didn't try that again...lol..

Real signal guns tend to habitually be made of a much higher quality refined standard.. precision made... even though some folks will label any and all small cannons the same which in earnest they aren't.... signal guns typically found mounted on a fancy detailed naval type of gun carriage or mounted on a yoke...

Others similar to yours...
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Signal guns made as such....
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Thank you so much for taking the time to post the pictures and info. I particularly enjoyed your memories of firing one. My you must have given your Mother a startle! I've so enjoyed all the responses and have been honored. J

 

[coloradoJen]

Well, "it looks very much like an Eagle Pommel Dyer Type" and then "Looks similar" are much like I mentioned the way many look at swords. On a scale of ten, the only real visual similarities are the grip color and that it is an eagle pommel. Truly, all components of the two are completely different.

Jen's sword grip has obviously (imo) been replaced. I had posted examples that are true siblings of Jen's sword and background for them.

Browse through those folders on my drive and you may see the visual differences and similarities to the Solingen swords. Sharing my images is fine with me but it does invite my commenting on them and differing with your opinion, if only to clarify what they represent. Perhaps I was just startled to see the Dyer type posted out of context. Look to the German, Berger, misc and unsorted folders for examples of Jen's sword.

There are many good books for American swords and for the eagles, here are some of the required reading if interested in eagle pommel swords.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0960309411/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0917218361/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0917218787/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0917218507/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/091059810X/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SCV79GC/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000TBGWMA/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

Two out of print and highly sought selling at original retail. He must have come across some boxes of them. Get them while they last.

Don Furr American Swords
http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=38957

Hamilton Ames Sword Company
http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=38963

There are other such as Bezdek's books valuable for makers lists but individual sword info sparse.

Another companion primer to Peterson's for early American sword is Neumann's Swords and Blades of the American Revolution
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1880655004/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

Some are better than others for the later swords. The Medicus collection is a good flash card deck. Those are some of the books I go to for eagle information. An amount of older information needs amendment.

Cheers

GC

GC I am truly honored you took the time to post so much information for me. I will enjoy the research.
I have been really humbled and thankful for the number of people willing to take the time to point me in the right direction. I was hoping for a bit better news. But i have so enjoyed all the info. And if they can find a good home and the sell even covers a few of my sons school books I'll be happy. But to be honest it has just really done my heart good just to see that there are still people out there willing to take the time just to help another.. My boy's father took his life a while back . And God has really walked with us through our journey. But I am always very moved when my boys get to see good men that are willing to show kindness . My 19 year old son is my war history buff. And he was really touched by the responses people willing to help us figure this out. So thank you all very much. I will enjoy the homework I've been given and continue to enjoy all the post and photos on the site. Again thank you all for making my and my sons day, j