Pickett's Charge, failed because?

[Malingerer]

Imboden was protecting it. Not all Cavalry was with Stuart. In addition to Imboden's brigade, Albert Jenkins's was with Ewell on the Confederate van.

Indeed- that also included "Grumble Jones' brigade and some lady named Beverly as well all guarding Lee's supply line down to Winchester and coming up to the Fairfield area to help cover the retreat.

 

[ebg12]

"You never attack a snake when he is coiled and ready to strike. Wait until the snake moves and then chop him into little pieces."
Lee should have swung around and headed towards DC, forcing Meade out of his, most excellent, position.

One thing Lee always seemed to have in mind was a plan of escape. He was very weary not to be cut off from his communications, supply chain, and Virginia. What odds was it that a battle farther east would have been successful for the Confederates with the potential of the Union Army attacking Lee's ever growing longer and longer communication lines (especially with the absent of Confederate Calvalry to protect those lines)? The Union Army was still a potent fighting force as proven at the Battle of Chancerloville...there the Union Army absorbed Lee's "best shot".

 

[OpnCoronet]

As previously noted on this thread, the attack failed of bad execution, i.e., bad, or, at least indifferent coordination. With too few men to do the job, without that coordination.

Without Ewell's support, the attack became a straight on frontal assault in broad daylight, with to much ground to cover quickly enough for such an attack.

The attacking force, too small to begin with(without diversions), was indifferently formed of various units from different corps and only Pickett's Div. was Fresh and up to strength.

 

[W. Richardson]

Why did Pickett's Charge fail ?

I think the yankees had something to do with it...............

Honestly, too great a distance, too many enemy, and too little support.......................

Badly planned, badly executed, but bravely conducted.................

Respectfully,

William

One Nation
Two countries

 

[Waterloo50]

Why did Pickett's Charge fail ?

I think the yankees had something to do with it...............

Honestly, too great a distance, too many enemy, and too little support.......................

Badly planned, badly executed, but bravely conducted.................

Respectfully,

William

One Nation
Two countries

View attachment 297598

In your opinion and given the resources available at the time, was there anything that could have been done to have made the attack a success. I'm genuinely interested in reading opinions on this, we've had some pretty good thoughts on this thread about what went wrong but it'd be great to hear some thoughts on how it could have been turned into a success.

 

[Viper21]

In your opinion and given the resources available at the time, was there anything that could have been done to have made the attack a success. I'm genuinely interested in reading opinions on this, we've had some pretty good thoughts on this thread about what went wrong but it'd be great to hear some thoughts on how it could have been turned into a success.

More rest for the troops before the assault, & as others have mentioned, taking out the fences. Those are the somewhat simple adjustments to the game plan that, may have had a positive impact.

Giving the impression of moving out that afternoon. While sending a stealth team in at night to take down the fences, & start stealthly moving up early, say, 2:00am under the cover of darkness. Attack at day break.

The closer they got before attacked, the greater the chance of success. More prep time, & more rest, I'm inclined to believe would've helped quite a bit.

 

[Andersonh1]

If the cannon assault had been more effective, would that have made a difference?

 

[W. Richardson]

In your opinion and given the resources available at the time, was there anything that could have been done to have made the attack a success. I'm genuinely interested in reading opinions on this, we've had some pretty good thoughts on this thread about what went wrong but it'd be great to hear some thoughts on how it could have been turned into a success.

Well, for one, there were several units regiments/brigades that, due to casualties from the first day, should not have been included. At the same time there were a couple of brigades that had much fewer casualties that should have been included. More artillery support, an actual 2nd wave that quickly followed up the first wave.

I do feel that Pickett's charge should not have been tried, especially as it was conducted. A frontal assault was a hazardous, and wasteful tactic. Lee should have know that after witnessing Fredericksburg, and Malvern Hill.


Respectfully,

William

One Nation
Two countries

 

[jackt62]

A frontal assault was a hazardous, and wasteful tactic. Lee should have know that after witnessing Fredericksburg, and Malvern Hill.

Lee did not necessarily plan Pickett's Charge as a simple frontal assault. His intention was to duplicate the second day's fight along the flanks with the addition of the assault on a weakened Union center. But as Lee explained the reason for the defeat in his July 13, 1863 letter to Davis, "I still think that if all things would have worked together it would have been accomplished."

 

[W. Richardson]

Lee did not necessarily plan Pickett's Charge as a simple frontal assault. His intention was to duplicate the second day's fight along the flanks with the addition of the assault on a weakened Union center. But as Lee explained the reason for the defeat in his July 13, 1863 letter to Davis, "I still think that if all things would have worked together it would have been accomplished."

I agree with you, but as it was planned, and how it was conducted were two different things. That is why I said " I do feel that Pickett's charge should not have been tried, especially as it was conducted" It ended up as pretty much a straight forward frontal assault. Had it went as planned, it is possible it may have been successful. Yet, some of the planning was still wrong, as I had pointed out, there were units in the charge that just should not have been a part of it, due to their losses from the previous two days of fighting.

Respectfully,

William

One Nation
Two countries

 

[trice]

If the cannon assault had been more effective, would that have made a difference?

IMHO, the artillery could have been more effective. There were reasons it wasn't, ranging from poor quality Confederate munitions and fuses to poor leadership and co-ordination across the three Corps to the normal difficulties of adjusting and controlling the fall of shot in those days.

The problem is this: even if the artillery is more effective and Pickett's Charge somehow penetrates the Union line, routing Hancock's Corps ... what then?

There was no solid reserve at hand, ready to exploit this success at Lee's command (even the few howitzers Alexander planned to send forward to support the infantry were unavailable because they had been ordered away by an uninformed Pendleton). Lee's only option here is to wave his army forward, to hope that his aggressive commanders and bold troops can somehow win a "soldier's battle" in the chaos surrounding Pickett's attack, that Stuart will somehow win a victory and shut the Baltimore Pike. If that can happen, the AoP is in deep trouble in the dark hours of July 3rd.

While we should never overlook the feats of arms that brave men have accomplished against incredible odds in desperate times, the problem here is that the Union does have a strong central reserve. It is built around the VI Corps, weary from their forced march to the battlefield, but now resting perhaps a mile from the Angle. It includes thousands of other troops drawn from the other corps of Meade's army, backed by batteries not yet committed. Meade will counterattack quickly.

A successful Pickett's Charge would be followed by a wild blaze of combat from the Round Tops to Culps Hill, with Stuart savagely trying to get past Gregg to the East and Jones/Robertson feeling for the Union flank to the Southwest. If the Rebels can somehow panic the Yankees, crowd them into mobs where they can't deploy to fight, if they can get among them and cut them to ribbons, then maybe they have a chance. It is not very likely they can and panic doesn't sound much like the Army of the Potomac that the ANV met at Gettysburg.

To succeed, the Rebels need to penetrate the Union line, cut the Taneytown Road and the Baltimore Pike, pocket all the Yankees they can and force their surrender. The Yankees need to seal the breech, drive the Rebels back, shoot the advancing waves into the ground before they can close. Yankee cavalry has to hold the flanks, keep Jones and Stuart away from the Taneytown Road and the Baltimore Pike. Casualties will be horrendous no matter how that goes, but if Lee fails to win, the ANV may be done as an effective force, the war may be effectively over.

 

[BarryR]

"Pickett's Charge, failed because?"

Thousands of words/books have been written on the subject...But as a student of the Civil War with no expertise in anything, marching 15,000 men 3/4 of a mile in open field over fences is/was ludicrous...

 

[OpnCoronet]

The Plan was good enough, if properly executed. The Plan failed of proper execution The plan was not properly executed, because of the failures of command.

What needed to be done was for Lee to see his original plan was, accepted by his subordinate commanders and executed as planned, i.e., he should have called a conference with his senior commanders corps and the Div. commands of the attacking and supporting units, coordinating watches, making sure everyone one knew the plan and were on the same page and most importantly, at this time, gauge the temper of those commanders

Lee should have overruled Longstreet's reluctance to withdraw his corps and reposition it for the assault on the Union Center. Lee should have reviewed the situation at Culp's Hill and either reinforced the defense of confederate positions or, even better withdraw to Ewell's original position and await coordination with Longstreet's attack(and reinforcing Ewell because the AoP on the hill were there in force.).

Given his experiences on Day 2, Lee should have been at Longstreet's Headquarters to review the timing of the attack(and a senior staff officers at Ewell's headquarters might have been useful, also).

I know this was against Lee's character and practice and probably impossible for him to do. But, it was what needed to be done, I believe, for the success of Lee's original plan.



P.S. the misdirected artillery fire, accomplished an unintended result, if the attack had succeeded, it rendered the rear are of Union line to be attack clear of any chances of quick Support being very close to support the Union line.

 

[HomegrownYank]

To quote Pickett on the matter: "I think the Union Army may have had something to do with it".

 

[Waterloo50]

To quote Pickett on the matter: "I think the Union Army may have had something to do with it".

I think he'd have been more accurate if he had of said… 'our artillery barrage had something to do with it', especially because the Union artillery was not suppressed, and the Union infantry was not weakened as planned'.

 

[jackt62]

I know this was against Lee's character and practice and probably impossible for him to do. But, it was what needed to be done, I believe, for the success of Lee's original plan.

Lee's habit of devising overall strategy and then leaving its execution in the hands of his subordinate officers was perhaps his most serious flaw. His reliance on his lieutenants may have worked out when dealing with a Stonewall Jackson (although even their, it failed during the Seven Days), but was seriously wanting when dealing with the likes of Ewell and Hill.

 

[rpkennedy]

Lee's habit of devising overall strategy and then leaving its execution in the hands of his subordinate officers was perhaps his most serious flaw. His reliance on his lieutenants may have worked out when dealing with a Stonewall Jackson (although even their, it failed during the Seven Days), but was seriously wanting when dealing with the likes of Ewell and Hill.

The way that I describe it is that the AotP did just enough to win and the AoNV did just enough to lose.

Ryan

 

[Nathan Stuart]

View attachment 293367

Mention the name George E Pickett and the first thing that springs to mind is the failed attack at Gettysburg.

Like many of us here I've examined that famous/infamous charge and I'm left wondering what could have been done differently to make it a success, was it even possible for the outcome to have been different. I'd like to know what others think, if I could send you back in time and assuming that Lee would act on your advice, what would you have told him was required to break through the Union defences...oh, by the way, telling Lee not to go ahead with an attack isn't an option.

For those who want a quick overview of how things originally played out here's a quick timeline, it's not exhaustive by any means but it gives a rough idea on how things unfolded.

1:00pm 152 Confederate cannons are pushed out of the tree line and fire on the Union centre, 122 Union cannons respond, the firing last for 2 hours.
3:00pm the cannon fire falls silent.
3:10pm 14000 Confederate troops step out of the tree line, the confederate line is almost a mile in length, the confederate line steps out in perfect order, it was 87 degrees and humid so the line moved slowly.
122 Union cannon open up on the confederate line.
The Confederate line has to cross open ground for about a mile to make it to the Union line, however, they have to cross the Emmitsburg road which is lined either side by two 5 foot tall fences.
At the Union line, approximately 6000 men are told to hold fire until the confederate line reaches the road, meanwhile, 25 Union cannon are being loaded with canister shot.
When the confederate line or what's left it reaches the road, all hell breaks lose and the confederate line starts to falter, so much so that they go to ground, the bodies are falling and the road becomes a scene of complete carnage, those that have managed to push on meet the first line of union defences at the West wall, the confederate line clashes with 1600 union soldiers, in this clash the Union suffers 500 casualties and approximately 1100 union men withdraw to the main union line, the confederate line loses momentum and on seeing this the union swing around and box in those that had made it to the west wall.
On seeing the line falter, brigadier general Armistead pushes through the line and try's to encourage the men to keep moving, again the confederate line is hammered by the union main line.
In total the confederate line took about 50 minutes to cross and withdraw across the field, they suffered a loss of 6,800 men.

I fail to see what could have been done differently, does anyone have any theories about what was needed to break the Union line?

A massed formation infantry assault over 3/4 mile of open fields, slowed up by fences along the way, against an established enemy position pouring out heavy artillery and rifle fire, was doomed to failure, no matter how good was Lee's infantry. Longstreet always knew this.

It was no help that the preceding Southern cannonade was largely ineffective, due to over-firing and defective ammunition.

Lee's chances of success might have been improved (probably not by enough, on July 3), if better coordinated synchronized assaults were launched at multiple parts along the extended Union defensive line.

 

[Rebforever]

A massed formation infantry assault over 3/4 mile of open fields, slowed up by fences along the way, against an established enemy position pouring out heavy artillery and rifle fire, was doomed to failure, no matter how good was Lee's infantry. Longstreet always knew this.

It was no help that the preceding Southern cannonade was largely ineffective, due to over-firing and defective ammunition.

Lee's chances of success might have been improved (probably not by enough, on July 3), if better coordinated synchronized assaults were launched at multiple parts along the extended Union defensive line.

It was a successful charge. They made it to the rock wall angle. And then….?

 

[jackt62]

It was a successful charge. They made it to the rock wall angle. And then….?

It could have been more than touch and go if other things had worked out. A more effective artillery bombardment by Alexander, a less robust reinforcement of the angle by Meade and Hancock, a coordinated and more successful assault by Johnson at Culps Hill, a truly vigorous support by Wilcox and Lang from Hill's Corp, a breakthrough by Stuart at the East Cavalry field. But all of these actions of course involved a level of communication, timing, and intelligence that were sorely lacking.