Lost Triumph

[prroh]

I now remember exactly what I was refering to when I made this statement. I read John Gordon's "Reminiscences of the Civil War" last fall. In chapter 11 "Gettysburg" page 160 paragraph 2 and footnotes 1 and 2 Gordon does refer to Longstreet as one of the greatest American soldiers but acknowledged the controversies that surrounded him.

In footnote 1: "That General Lee distinctly ordered Longsrteet to attack early the morning of the second day, and if he had done so, two of the largest corps of Meade's army would not have been in the fight; but Longsreet delayed the attack until four o'clock in the afternoon, and thus his oppurtunity of occupying Little Round Top, the key to position, which he might have done in the morning without firing a shot or losing a man."

Footnote 2: "That General Lee ordered Longstreet to attack at daybreak on the morning of the third day, and that he did not attack until two or three o'clock in the afternoon, the artillery opening at one."

This was what I was refering too.

Thank you

Thie first was a widely believed story which was fabricated by Lee's Chief of artillery, Pemberton, after the war and disproven by Lee's staff officers.

The second story hardly had much currency.

I am suprised Gordon published such rumors without citing the source. Being subordinate to Longstreet and in a different Corps during the battle. It is unlikely that he would have any first hand knowledge of any orders or discussions from Lee to Longstreet

 

[K Hale]

Gordon was full of it too.

 

[Stonewall1982]

I don't know what to believe. When I read that I did find it funny that he would hear that when he was in a different corps than Longstreet. But I just wanted to say that I had heard this charge outside of "The Killer Angels" and "Gettysburg".

Thank you

 

[dvrmte]

Gordon was full of it too.

He told a better story than Longstreet but ....... yea he's full of it.

dvrmte

 

[Stonewall1982]

In another footnote on the same page referenced above Gordon does make some references:

"That General Lee, according to the testimony of Colonel Walter Taylor, Colonel C.S. Venable, and General A.L. Long, who were present when the order was given, ordered Longstreet to make the attack on the last day, with the three divisions of his corps, and two divisions of A.P. Hill's corps, and that instead of doin so he sent fourteen thousand to assail Meade's army in his strong position, and heavily intrenched."

He references Taylor, Venable, and Long by name only. I do not know specifically what they said as to this affair.

I think I will start a new thread about Gordon's book where we can discuss it without changing the subject here. I would like to know what others think of Gordon's book.

Thank you,

 

[The Iron Duke]

In footnote 1: "That General Lee distinctly ordered Longsrteet to attack early the morning of the second day, and if he had done so, two of the largest corps of Meade's army would not have been in the fight; but Longsreet delayed the attack until four o'clock in the afternoon, and thus his oppurtunity of occupying Little Round Top, the key to position, which he might have done in the morning without firing a shot or losing a man."

The Sunrise Order is an infamous falsehood. Even DS Freeman, a notable Longstreet criticizer, admits it's a fraud.

 

[The Iron Duke]

While it was a late hour for the beginning of a major battle, Longstreet's men would need time to get into position. Their destination was only three miles distant, but the concealed route they were to follow doubled the distance. Lee did not give Longstreet the order to proceed until 11:00 AM, and there was an immediate half hour delay as Longstreet, with Lee's permission, waited for Law's brigade of Hood's division to reach the field. Lee could have had no misconceptions concerning the time it would take to implement his battle plan. Only two months earlier, using similar tactics at Chancellorsville, Jackson's flank march had consumed a full eight hours.

The assault might have begun somewhat earlier but for problems involving Captain Johnston, the officer of Lee's staff who had made the early morning reconnaissance. Lee ordered him to guide the First Corps to its position. He rode with Johnston and Longstreet part of the way, and had there been any misunderstanding concerning Johnston's duties, it would have been discovered immediately and corrected.

Unfortunately, the route followed by the First Corps proved to be visible to the enemy, forcing Longstreet to make a long countermarch in order to find a substitute, hidden path. The delay irritated Longstreet greatly. He was particularly anxious to place his artillery and ordered Alexander to make a detalied reconnaissance. Lee returned to the right flank while this was in progress, although the exact time of his arrival cannot be determined. Longstreet's dispositions were made under Lee's eyes and with Lee's approval. Between 3:30 and 4:00 PM Longstreet completed his arrangements and gaver orders for the attack to begin. Given the route, his men had made the flank march with admirable speed.

At the last moment, however, Hood and McLaws balked, sending messages to ask that the assault be delayed and rearranged...Lee was present on the right flank, aware of the changed situation and expressing annoyance at the last minute delays by his lieutenant's division commanders.

Hood objected strongly to the frontal assault, wanting instead to send a brigade to circle Round Top and strike the Federal rear. He requested permission to do so no less than three times, but each time it was denied. As soon as his troops started forward, Hood made a fourth request directly to Lee, who was now present. Lee, however, wanted no further maneuvering. "I cannot take [the] risk of losing a brigade," he informed the Texan. "We must do the best we can." -Lee's Tarnished Lieutenant pages 55, 57-58

 

[The Iron Duke]

If Longstreet started out at 11:30 AM and got into position at around 3:30 PM that is 4 hours. So 6 miles divided by 4 hours is a pace of 1.5 miles per hour.

Jackson's flank march at Chancellorsville was 12 miles and took 8 hours. 12 divided by 8 is 1.5 miles per hour.

But Longstreet was slow? Rubbish.