Stonewall1982
First Sergeant
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2010
- Location
- The Bluegrass State
Yes he did run onto them and it turned into the "East Cavalry Dield" battle, which happened in the same general time frame as Pickett's Charge.
. Lee spoke with Stuart privately and never recorded what was said. So what really happened????
Comments on the hypothesis? I don't know.
But what do you think of the theory in the book? I have my doubts as to that hypothesis.
Longstreet is full of it. He himself advised Stuart to go the way he did. Unfortunately, as they say, life is what happens when we make other plans, and many things interfered with Stuart getting to PA in a timely manner. The plan that Stuart, Lee, and Longstreet all agreed on went wrong the first day and never got back on track. It took, I think, four days for Stuart to manage to even get out of VA, and by that time he ought to have been on Ewell's flank in PA. Instead that would take four more days.Another thing that "LOST TRIUMPH" went into was why Stuart was missing until the afternoon of July 2. According to accepted history Stuart was censored privately by Lee for not informing him of the position of the Federal army. Other general, such as Longstreet, felt that Stuart should have been court martialed for derilition of duty. Stuart did capture around 100 supply wagons during the time that he was missing. Anyways, the book alleges that Lee did NOT censor Stuart, instead Stuart was doing exactly what Lee wanted him to do, capture supplies and horses. Lee spoke with Stuart privately and never recorded what was said. So what really happened???
In my opinion, his most important, most unsung, and most difficult work of the entire war. Well-covered in McClellan's biography and the recent book One Continuous Fight.Whatever was said was brief and private. I think that whatever ill feelings, if any, Lee may have had for Stuart would have been eradicated by his brillant screening of the ANV during the retreat back to the Potomac.
There actually were two orders from Lee, plus Longstreet's endorsement. I think they are in the ORs, but I am terrible at OR-searching, so here they are quoted by Eric Wittenberg:So that I can read it, where would I find Lee's orders to Stuart and Longstreet's endorsement of it? Would it be in the O.R., or someplace else? Thanks!
Longstreet is full of it. He himself advised Stuart to go the way he did. Unfortunately, as they say, life is what happens when we make other plans, and many things interfered with Stuart getting to PA in a timely manner. The plan that Stuart, Lee, and Longstreet all agreed on went wrong the first day and never got back on track. It took, I think, four days for Stuart to manage to even get out of VA, and by that time he ought to have been on Ewell's flank in PA. Instead that would take four more days.
If you read Lee's orders to Stuart, and Longstreet's endorsement, you will understand why Stuart was never court-martialed. It would have been utterly groundless. I'm sure Lee said something like "Jeez, man, where have you been all this time?" but s**t happens and Lee knows that as well as anyone.
The entire expedition (and I mean the whole army) was ill-advised and badly planned.
The bold indicates why I don't care for Longstreet. If Longstreet during the ACW was anything like he was in his later life, I don't know how Lee put up with it. Lee had to be extremely patient.
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME XXVII/2 [S# 44]
JUNE 3-AUGUST 1, 1863.--The Gettysburg Campaign.
No. 426.--Reports of General Robert E. Lee, C. S. Army, commanding Army of Northern Virginia.
[excerpt]
MARCH INTO PENNSYLVANIA.
On the night of Ewell's appearance at Winchester, the enemy in front of A. P. Hill, at Fredericksburg, recrossed the Rappahannock, and the whole army of General Hooker withdrew from the north side of the river. In order to mislead him as to our intentions, and at the same time protect Hill's corps in its march up the Rappahannock, Longstreet left Culpeper Court-House on the 15th, and, advancing along the eastern side of the Blue Ridge, occupied Ashby's and Snicker's Gaps. He had been joined, while at Culpeper, by General Pickett, with three brigades of his division. General Stuart, with three brigades of cavalry, moved on Longstreet's right, and took position in front of the Gaps. Hampton's and [W. E.]Jones' brigades remained along the Rappahannock and Hazel Rivers, in front of Culpeper Court-House, with instructions to follow the main body as soon as Hill's corps had passed that point.
On the 17th, Fitz. Lee's brigade, under Colonel Munford, which was on the road to Snicker's Gap, was attacked near Aldie by the Federal cavalry. The attack was repulsed with loss, and the brigade held its ground until ordered to fall back, its right being threatened by another body, coming from Hopewell toward Middleburg. The latter force was driven from Middleburg, and pursued toward Hopewell by Robertson's brigade, which arrived about dark. Its retreat was intercepted by W. H. F. Lee's brigade, under Colonel Chambliss, jr., and the greater part of a regiment captured.
During the three succeeding days there was much skirmishing, General Stuart taking a position west of Middleburg, where he awaited the rest of his command.
General Jones arrived on the 19th, and General Hampton in the afternoon of the following day, having repulsed, on his march, a cavalry force sent to reconnoiter in the direction of Warrenton.
On the 21st, the enemy attacked with infantry and cavalry, and obliged General Stuart, after a brave resistance, to fall back to the gaps of the mountains. The enemy retired the next day, having advanced only a short distance beyond Upperville.
In these engagements, the cavalry sustained a loss of 510 killed, wounded, and missing. Among them were several valuable officers, whose names are mentioned in General Stuart's report. One piece of artillery was disabled and left on the field. The enemy's loss was heavy. About 400 prisoners were taken and several stand of colors.
[excerpt]
In the meantime, the progress of Ewell, who was already in Maryland, with Jenkins' cavalry advanced into Pennsylvania as far as Chambersburg, rendered it necessary that the rest of the army should be within supporting distance, and Hill having reached the Valley, Longstreet was withdrawn to the west side of the Shenandoah, and the two corps encamped near Berryville.
General Stuart was directed to hold the mountain passes with part of his command as long as the enemy remained south of the Potomac, and, with the remainder, to cross into Maryland, and place himself on the right of General Ewell. Upon the suggestion of the former officer that he could damage the enemy and delay his passage of the river by getting in his rear, he was authorized to do so, and it was left to his discretion whether to enter Maryland east or west of the Blue Ridge; but he was instructed to lose no time in placing his command on the right of our column as soon as he should perceive the enemy moving northward.
[excerpt]
On the 24th, Longstreet and Hill were put in motion to follow Ewell, and, on the 27th, encamped near Chambersburg.
General Imboden, under the orders before referred to, had been operating on Ewell's left while the latter was advancing into Maryland. He drove off the troops guarding the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad, and destroyed all the important bridges on that route from Martinsburg to Cumberland, besides inflicting serious damage upon the Chesapeake and Ohio Canal. He was at Hancock when Longstreet and Hill reached Chambersburg, and was directed to proceed to the latter place by way of McConnellsburg, collecting supplies for the army on his route.
The cavalry force at this time with the army, consisting of Jenkins' brigade and [E. V.]White's battalion, was not greater than was required to accompany the advance of General Ewell and General Early, with whom it performed valuable service, as appears from their reports. It was expected that as soon as the Federal Army should cross the Potomac, General Stuart would give notice of its movements, and nothing having been heard from him since our entrance into Maryland, it was inferred that the enemy had not yet left Virginia. Orders were, therefore, issued to move upon Harrisburg. The expedition of General Early to York was designed in part to prepare for this undertaking by breaking the railroad between Baltimore and Harrisburg, and seizing the bridge over the Susquehanna at Wrightsville. General Early succeeded in the first object, destroying a number of bridges above and below York, but on the approach of the troops sent by him to Wrightsville, a body of militia stationed at that place fled across the river and burned the bridge in their retreat. General Early then marched to rejoin his corps.
The advance against Harrisburg was arrested by intelligence received from a scout on the night of the 28th, to the effect that the army of General Hooker had crossed the Potomac, and was approaching the South Mountain. In the absence of the cavalry, it was impossible to ascertain his intentions; but to deter him from advancing ****her west, and intercepting our communication with Virginia, it was determined to concentrate the army east of the mountains.
BATTLE OF GETTYSBURG.
Hill's corps was accordingly ordered to move toward Cashtown on the 29th, and Longstreet to follow the next day, leaving Pickett's division at Chambersburg to guard the rear until relieved by Imboden. General Ewell was recalled from Carlisle, and directed to join the army at Cashtown or Gettysburg, as circumstances might require. The advance of the enemy to the latter place was unknown, and the weather being inclement, the march was conducted with a view to the comfort of the troops. Heth's division reached Cashtown on the 29th, and the following morning Pettigrew's brigade, sent by General Heth to procure supplies at Gettysburg, found it occupied by the enemy. Being ignorant of the extent of his force, General Pettigrew was unwilling to hazard an attack with his
single brigade, and returned to Cashtown.
[excerpt]
In the meantime the enemy occupied the point which General Ewell designed to seize, but in what force could not be ascertained, owing to the darkness. An intercepted dispatch showed that another corps had halted that afternoon 4 miles from Gettysburg. Under these circumstances, it was decided not to attack until the arrival of Longstreet, two of whose divisions (those of Hood and McLaws) encamped about 4 miles in the rear during the night. Anderson's division of Hill's corps came up after the engagement.
[excerpt]
The movements of the army preceding the battle of Gettysburg had been much embarrassed by the absence of the cavalry. As soon as it was known that the enemy had crossed into Maryland, orders were sent to the brigades of [B. H.] Robertson and [William E.] Jones, which had been left to guard the passes of the Blue Ridge, to rejoin the army without delay, and it was expected that General Stuart, with the remainder of his command, would soon arrive. In the exercise of the discretion given him when Longstreet and Hill marched into Maryland, General Stuart determined to pass around the rear of the Federal Army with three brigades and cross the Potomac between it and Washington, believing that he would be able, by that route, to place himself on our right flank in time to keep us properly advised of the enemy's movements. He marched from Salem on the night of June 24, intending to pass west of Centreville, but found the enemy's forces so distributed as to render that route impracticable. Adhering to his original plan, he was forced to make a wide detour through Buckland and Brentsville, and crossed the Occoquan at Wolf Run Shoals on the morning of the 27th. Continuing his march through Fairfax Court-House and Dranesville, he arrived at the Potomac, below the mouth of Seneca Creek, in the evening.
He found the river much swollen by the recent rains, but, after great exertion, gained the Maryland shore before midnight with his whole command.
He now ascertained that the Federal Army, which he had discovered to be drawing toward the Potomac, had crossed the day before, and was moving toward Frederick, thus interposing itself between him and our forces.
He accordingly marched northward, through Rockville and Westminster, to Hanover, Pa., where he arrived on the 30th; but the enemy advanced with equal rapidity on his left, and continued to obstruct communication with our main body.
Supposing, from such information as he could obtain, that part of «21 R R--VOL XXVII, PT II» the army was at Carlisle, he left Hanover that night, and proceeded thither by way of Dover.
He reached Carlisle on July 1, where he received orders to proceed to Gettysburg. He arrived in the afternoon of the following day, and took position on General Ewell's left. His leading brigade, under General Hampton, encountered and repulsed a body of the enemy's cavalry at Hunterstown, endeavoring to reach our rear.
General Stuart had several skirmishes during his march, and at Hanover quite a severe engagement took place with a strong force of cavalry, which was finally compelled to withdraw from the town. The prisoners taken by the cavalry and paroled at various places amounted to about 800, and at Rockville a large train of wagons coming from Washington was intercepted and captured. Many of them were destroyed, but 125, with all the animals of the train, were secured.
The ranks of the cavalry were much reduced by its long and arduous march, repeated conflicts, and insufficient supplies of food and forage, but the day after its arrival at Gettysburg it engaged the enemy's cavalry with unabated spirit, and effectually protected our left.
[end of excerpt]
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O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME XXVII/3 [S# 45]
Correspondence, Orders, And Returns Relating To Operations In North Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, And Department Of The East, From June 3 To August 3, 1863.
CONFEDERATE CORRESPONDENCE. ETC.--#1
HEADQUARTERS ARMY OF NORTHERN VIRGINIA,
June 9, 1863.
Maj. Gen. J. E. B. STUART,
Commanding Cavalry:
GENERAL: General Lee desires me to say that he has received your dispatches by the couriers and from signal station. General Longstreet has a division looking to Stevensburg, and General Ewell on the other side looking to Brandy Station. He desires you not to expose your men too much, but to do the enemy damage when possible. As the whole thing seems to be a reconnaissance to determine our force and position, he wishes these concealed as much as possible, and the infantry not to be seen, if it is possible to avoid it.
I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
C. S. VENABLE,
Major, and Aide-de-Camp.
[P. S.]--Is your line of couriers by Ely's and Madden's cut off?
-----
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME XXVII/3 [S# 45]
Correspondence, Orders, And Returns Relating To Operations In North Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, And Department Of The East, From June 3 To August 3, 1863.
CONFEDERATE CORRESPONDENCE. ETC.--#1
Markham, June 17, 1863--3.30 p.m.
Lieut. Gen. JAMES LONGSTREET,
Commanding Corps:
GENERAL: Your note of 10 a.m. to-day just received. I have heard nothing of the movements of General Hooker either from General Stuart or yourself, and, therefore, can form no opinion of the best move against him. If a part of our force could have operated east of the mountains, it would have served more to confuse him, but as you have turned off to the Valley, and I understand all the trains have taken that route, I hope it is for the best. At any rate, it is too late to change from any information I have. You had better, therefore, push on, relieve Ewell's division as soon as you can, and let him advance into Maryland, at least as far as Hagerstown. Give out it is against Harper's Ferry. I will send back for A. P. Hill to move by Chester Gap. I wrote to you to-day and yesterday. I shall go from here to the Valley.
Very respectfully,
R. E. LEE,
General.
-----
HEADQUARTERS ARMY OF NORTHERN VIRGINIA,
Markham, June 17, 1863--3.30 p.m.
Lieutenant-General EWELL,
Commanding Corps:
GENERAL: I have just received your letter, the first from you since your dispatch announcing the fall of Winchester. I think the reports which you have of the forces in Harper's Ferry must be exaggerated. I wish you to move Rodes' division on as far as Hagerstown, and operate in the enemy's country according to the plan proposed. Give out that your movement is for the purpose of enveloping Harper's Ferry. Repress marauding. Take what is necessary for the army, and give citizens of Maryland Confederate money or certificates.(*) Do not expose yourself. Keep your own scouts.
Very respectfully, your obedient servant,
R. E. LEE,
General.
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This is all I could find between Lee, Ewell, Longstreet and Stuart - leading up to Gettysburg--not being there for Lee. I will look in more areas for that "Indorsement" mentioned, K_Hale, ma'am.
I do not find anything that supports General Longstreet suggesting Stuart to be brought up for Court Martial; however--that doesn't mean the documents and or proof exists elsewhere, such as supplemental records of the Rebellion; diaries, etc.
That said, the only recollection I have of any mention of a desire to have General J.E.B. Stuart court-martial; was in the book "Killer Angels." The suggestion if memory serves me correctly, is brought up by "Major Marshall" on General Lee's staff, as Longstreet approached Head-Quarters.
M. E. Wolf