Lee - Jackson Day 2020

[Stone in the wall]

coexist

 

[Florida Rebel]

It stands to reason why there are far more MLK streets in the South than anywhere north. Right? All southern states have extra large black populations. Watch what happens eventually in Texas, NM, AZ and California. As the Hispanic population grows larger and larger, so too will the number of streets and schools named after Hispanic heroes and role models. It's now 2020, not 1960. This is precisely "why" interest in the Civil War will decrease and those of us who favored the South in their quest for independence, will eventually be shouted down and muzzled.

 

[RobertP]

There is a MLK quote that is often repeated, that goes something like "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."

MLK was actually paraphrasing an antebellum Massachusetts minister named Theodore Parker, whose grandfather led the militia against the british at the Battle of Lexington. Reverend Parker was an abolitionist, and he wrote this in 1853:

Look at the facts of the world. You see a continual and progressive triumph of the right. I do not pretend to understand the moral universe, the arc is a long one, my eye reaches but little ways. I cannot calculate the curve and complete the figure by the experience of sight; I can divine it by conscience. But from what I see I am sure it bends towards justice.​

​

Things refuse to be mismanaged long. Jefferson trembled when he thought of slavery and remembered that God is just. Ere long all America will tremble.​

Both Parker and MLK proved to be right. The arc is definitely bending towards justice. The photo above is interesting because it shows two different competing visions crossing each other in time. One vision that is right and moral becoming mainstream in our country, while the other vision is rightfully diminishing and fading with every generation.

Did MLK attribute that quote to Parker?

 

[DanSBHawk]

The former Confederate states have far more MLK memorial streets and avenues than similarly sized Northern states. North Carolina and New Jersey, for example, have comparable populations but the Southern state has twenty-nine MLK streets whereas the Northern one has only eight. Similarly, even though Ohio has four times the population of Mississippi, the Buckeye State has only eight MLK streets whereas the state with the Confederate banner in its flag has sixteen.

BTW, Wisconsin (population 5.8 million) has five MLK streets and boulevards whereas South Carolina (population 5.1 million) with eleven has more than twice as many.

I doubt that MLK's purpose and his efforts were to get streets and memorials dedicated to himself.

Maybe that's the difference with the pro-confederate crowd. I'm proud of my family members who fought in every war but I honor them by learning about their experiences. I don't dress up like them and march down public streets, or seek attention with any other public display or memorial. I know they didn't serve in order to have a street named after themselves.

 

[CSA Today]

It stands to reason why there are far more MLK streets in the South than anywhere north. Right? All southern states have extra large black populations. Watch what happens eventually in Texas, NM, AZ and California. As the Hispanic population grows larger and larger, so too will the number of streets and schools named after Hispanic heroes and role models. It's now 2020, not 1960. This is precisely "why" interest in the Civil War will decrease and those of us who favored the South in their quest for independence, will eventually be shouted down and muzzled.

Therefore the challenge for us is to not let that happen.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

This is precisely "why" interest in the Civil War will decrease and those of us who favored the South in their quest for independence, will eventually be shouted down and muzzled.

Therefore the challenge for us is to not let that happen.

I see the evolution of time happening happening up North with events and people being forgotten from the Colonial era. We have, right near us, Mast Road, which the trees for masts for the King's ships were brought down to the river and then to the sea. It's many miles long and the Boston Post Road (and how important that road once was) - you couldn't find 1 in 20 people (if that) on the street that would even know what those names means. Roger's Road - he was terrible to the Indians but great for Colonists right near me. No one remembers that either. Time replaces all things to a point.....

But in keeping memories alive of people and places - which I believe in, btw - brings me to one of my favorite sayings - "Civility Costs Nothing" whether it's in this forum or in the towns and streets where we meet in places of prior conflict.

 

[CSA Today]

I see the evolution of time happening happening up North with events and people being forgotten from the Colonial era. We have, right near us, Mast Road, which the trees for masts for the King's ships were brought down to the river and then to the sea. It's many miles long and the Boston Post Road (and how important that road once was) - you couldn't find 1 in 20 people (if that) on the street that would even know what those names means. Roger's Road - he was terrible to the Indians but great for Colonists right near me. No one remembers that either. Time replaces all things to a point.....

But in keeping memories alive of people and places - which I believe in, btw - brings me to one of my favorite sayings - "Civility Costs Nothing" whether it's in this forum or in the towns and streets where we meet in places of prior conflict.

We don't like to talk about the colonial era too much around here, the Highland Scots that settled the region were the anti-secessionists back then.

 

[Andersonh1]

Therefore the challenge for us is to not let that happen.

That's one of the primary purposes of reenacting, to put a physical representation of a piece of history out there for people to see and remember, and to keep the memory of that history alive as it recedes further and further into the past. Sadly, history is as political as anything else these days and everyone is trying to put their own spin on events and people. But all we can do is tell people the story as best we can.

I see the evolution of time happening happening up North with events and people being forgotten from the Colonial era. We have, right near us, Mast Road, which the trees for masts for the King's ships were brought down to the river and then to the sea. It's many miles long and the Boston Post Road (and how important that road once was) - you couldn't find 1 in 20 people (if that) on the street that would even know what those names means. Roger's Road - he was terrible to the Indians but great for Colonists right near me. No one remembers that either. Time replaces all things to a point.....

True, and I'll give you a recent example. I've been reading Douglas Southall Freeman's biography of George Washington, and in the intro he makes mention of a battle Washington was involved with as a young man and says something to the effect of "now all men know...." when discussing some aspect of the fight. But I didn't know. Somewhere between the 1940s when Freeman wrote that and 2019 when I read it, the once familiar details of George Washington's life were no longer common knowledge. We as a people apparently used to know our own history better and venerate our historical figures far more than we do today.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

know our own history better and venerate our historical figures far more than we do today.

In the '60s in elementary school, our teachers used to hang up portraits of Washington and Lincoln in February in school and give us stories about them. I know for a fact, in our district, this no longer happens. Also, in the way back, Washington's birthday (in NH) was a stand alone holiday - not a 3-day weekend. We did celebrate Lincoln's birthday in school, we didn't have the day off in NH, but it was certainly noted. I do believe that when these holidays - great or small - are not celebrated in schools - you do lose something. Yes, the cherry tree thing might have been a myth but there were many other stories that weren't. I remember being incredibly impressed how Lincoln studied by firelight and really worked it to better himself and how devoted he was to his step-mother and how kind she was to him. Small things make big impressions.

I'm sure that in Southern states, the different heros of the time had their paper portraits to hang on the wall.

I will say, about the Civil War, that I never heard anything derogatory about Lee in my school system. More dismay about him ultimately siding with the South really and what an awesome match-up it would have been if he and Grant had been on the same team! Other than that, he was portrayed as a brilliant man, but picked the wrong side and that was that. Nothing ugly about it.

Because we have many more Colonial things up here, field trips and such are geared to that. I grew up in a 1700s house and live in one currently and that is all around us.

 

[unionblue]

There is a MLK quote that is often repeated, that goes something like "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."

MLK was actually paraphrasing an antebellum Massachusetts minister named Theodore Parker, whose grandfather led the militia against the british at the Battle of Lexington. Reverend Parker was an abolitionist, and he wrote this in 1853:

Look at the facts of the world. You see a continual and progressive triumph of the right. I do not pretend to understand the moral universe, the arc is a long one, my eye reaches but little ways. I cannot calculate the curve and complete the figure by the experience of sight; I can divine it by conscience. But from what I see I am sure it bends towards justice.​

​

Things refuse to be mismanaged long. Jefferson trembled when he thought of slavery and remembered that God is just. Ere long all America will tremble.​

Both Parker and MLK proved to be right. The arc is definitely bending towards justice. The photo above is interesting because it shows two different competing visions crossing each other in time. One vision that is right and moral becoming mainstream in our country, while the other vision is rightfully diminishing and fading with every generation.

The arc is continuing towards justice.

It is to others to march along towards that justice or continue to bury their heads in the sand of false history.

Those two cannot co-exist as they are two competing visions of history, one false and looking backwards, one true and facing forward.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

 

[unionblue]

Therefore the challenge for us is to not let that happen.

Might as well drain the oceans a forkful at a time.

By the looks of those dressed in gray, a few more years at most, but not much longer.

Inch by inch, year by year, and the tide will go out further each year for such celebrations. No hard actions need be taken to force it's demise, it will come, slowly, naturally, with not a bang, but a whimper, then silence.

I will miss the cute dog, but very little else.

 

[CSA Today]

The arc is continuing towards justice.

It is to others to march along towards that justice or continue to bury their heads in the sand of false history.

Those two cannot co-exist as they are two competing visions of history, one false and looking backwards, one true and facing forward.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

What would Southerners ever do without Yankee, uh Northern, propaganda to enlighten us.

 

[unionblue]

What would Southerners ever do without Yankee, uh Northern, propaganda to enlighten us.

God only knows, as your fellow Americans are always puzzled at your desire to remain stubbornly unenlightened.

 

[CSA Today]

God only knows, as your fellow Americans are always puzzled at your desire to remain stubbornly unenlightened.

Y'all must find your work terribly frustrating at times.

 

[unionblue]

Y'all must find your work terribly frustrating at times.

Not at all.

All I have to do is wait. A talent I acquired in the military and the US Post Office.

The passage of time will pretty much solve the issue.

 

[CSA Today]

Not at all.

All I have to do is wait. A talent I acquired in the military and the US Post Office.

The passage of time will pretty much solve the issue.

Ah yes, "going Postal."

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

Both of you are civil enough, but are going down the ad absurdum road - just sayin'.

 

[Paul Yancey]

A copy of the keynote speech is provided below:

My Confederate Statue Speech

(July 30, 2019) Provided below is the text of my speech a week ago about Confederate statues at the Abbeville Institute summer conference. * * * In 1965 Texas novelist William Humphrey wrot…

civilwarchat.wordpress.com

Thanks so much for providing a copy of the speech regarding Confederate statues. It is very well stated. I especially thought the following part of the speech really nailed the issue right on the head: "The academic community is at the forefront of those wanting to remove Confederate statues, which they characterize as racist. In doing so they violate the American Historical Society's warning against "presentism," which is defined as an uncritical tendency to interpret the past in terms of modern values. It fails to recognize that racial attitudes throughout America 150 years ago were different than they are today. That is why Abraham Lincoln said during an 1858 debate, "...I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races..."

Those of us who wish to preserve our common history must continue the fight against the removal of Confederate statues. The first place to win the battle is at the voting booth.

 

[Ethan S.]

Lee-Jackson day will never die, especially when it's the government that tried to kill it!

 

[DanSBHawk]

Lee-Jackson day will never die, especially when it's the government that tried to kill it!

Yes, the government. The government that was voted in by Virginians.