Jesse James

[JackADriscoll]

I wonder how James would be viewed if he was not killed in the way that he was. To me that adds another layer to the myth.

Boone is relatively unknown today. Crockett is only known for the Alamo. The popular culture doesn't know about the bear only three stuff. Knowledge of the West and frontiers and early American heroes is, for ill I'm thinking, is fading.

 

[TallTallMan]

I'm not seeing how John Brown and Jesse James are even in the same league with Boone and Crockett as folk heros. Maybe it's a Midwest thing but here in Texas both Brown and James are viewed as mere outlaws or criminals.

Agreed.

 

[TallTallMan]

Very few people care about Boone, Crockett, James, or Buffalo Bill anymore.

I wouldn't say that.

 

[Kurtlg]

I wonder how James would be viewed if he was not killed in the way that he was. To me that adds another layer to the myth.

Boone is relatively unknown today. Crockett is only known for the Alamo. The popular culture doesn't know about the bear only three stuff. Knowledge of the West and frontiers and early American heroes is, for ill I'm thinking, is fading.

I wonder how many folks heard much of Crockett before the Disney programs in the 1950s. Sadly I think some folks considered Disney true history.

 

[TallTallMan]

And of course there was the earlier movie "Jesse James meets Frankenstein's Daughter ".

Screw it! I wanted to mention it!

 

[TallTallMan]

@RedRover This is your cue!

Here's the Wikipedia description:

Sometime in the early 1880s, Dr Frankenstein's evil granddaughter Maria has moved to the American West with her brother Rudolph, in order to use the prairie lightning storms in her experiments on immigrant children snatched from a dying town. Maria is very much in charge, killing the children and replacing their brains with artificial ones, intending to revive them as her slaves. Rudolph, however, is reluctant to help his sister, but is too afraid of her to do otherwise. After a number of failures (owing to Rudolph secretly poisoning the victims as soon as his sister revives them), they are finding it increasingly difficult to hide the trail of bodies. Down the road, Mañuel Lopez and his wife Nina decide to leave town with their daughter Juanita because of the frequent disappearances, the latest of which is that of their son.

Two gunslingers come to town, Jesse James, the infamous outlaw, who has actually survived his reported killing on April 3, 1882, and Hank Tracy, a dimwitted brute that Jesse uses as his henchman. Meeting up with Butch Curry, the head of a local gang called The Wild Bunch, they join up with the intention of stealing $100,000 from the next stagecoach. However, a member of the gang, Butch's own brother Lonny, decides to go to the sheriff and let him know about the plot in exchange for becoming his deputy and claiming the reward for James' capture. As the robbery begins, the sheriff and his men shoot the two remaining members of the Wild Bunch and seriously wound Hank.

Jesse and Hank escape and stop at the Lopez's campout to tend to Hank's wound and sleep until the morning. During the middle of the night, Juanita wakes up Jesse and Hank and leads them back to town to the Frankensteins' house to fix up Hank despite her parents forbidding her to go back there. Maria agrees to help, and even covers for her guests when the sheriff and Lonny come around looking for them, but her actual plan is to use Hank as another one of her experiments. After a failed attempt to seduce Jesse, Maria sends him to the town pharmacist with a note, then begins operating on Hank, giving him an artificial new brain and bringing him back to life. Rudolph tries to poison Hank, now called Igor, but Maria catches him this time and orders her new monster to strangle her brother.

Jesse gives the pharmacist the note from Maria, which actually reveals his identity, prompting the pharmacist to call the sheriff. The sheriff is out, but his deputy Lonny decides to take on Jesse for the reward on his head. Jesse manages to escape, killing Lonny in the process. When he returns to the Frankensteins' house, Igor incapacitates him and ties him up.

Realizing Jesse is in trouble, Juanita sends the sheriff to the house, where he finds Jesse and prepares to take him in. But Maria sends Igor to crush the sheriff. During the scuffle, Juanita frees Jesse and tries to escape. Maria orders Igor to go kill Juanita, but he strangles Maria instead and goes after Jesse. Juanita gets the sheriff's gun and kills Igor.

The next morning, as Jesse buries Hank, Juanita pleads with him to stay and live with her, but Jesse, knowing that he is a fugitive, rides off with the sheriff, who was not killed by Igor.

 

[TallTallMan]

@DanSBHawk @archieclement Let's please stop with Mr. Brown. My blood pressure's going up.

 

[Kurtlg]

View attachment 508292

@RedRover This is your cue!

Here's the Wikipedia description:

Sometime in the early 1880s, Dr Frankenstein's evil granddaughter Maria has moved to the American West with her brother Rudolph, in order to use the prairie lightning storms in her experiments on immigrant children snatched from a dying town. Maria is very much in charge, killing the children and replacing their brains with artificial ones, intending to revive them as her slaves. Rudolph, however, is reluctant to help his sister, but is too afraid of her to do otherwise. After a number of failures (owing to Rudolph secretly poisoning the victims as soon as his sister revives them), they are finding it increasingly difficult to hide the trail of bodies. Down the road, Mañuel Lopez and his wife Nina decide to leave town with their daughter Juanita because of the frequent disappearances, the latest of which is that of their son.

Two gunslingers come to town, Jesse James, the infamous outlaw, who has actually survived his reported killing on April 3, 1882, and Hank Tracy, a dimwitted brute that Jesse uses as his henchman. Meeting up with Butch Curry, the head of a local gang called The Wild Bunch, they join up with the intention of stealing $100,000 from the next stagecoach. However, a member of the gang, Butch's own brother Lonny, decides to go to the sheriff and let him know about the plot in exchange for becoming his deputy and claiming the reward for James' capture. As the robbery begins, the sheriff and his men shoot the two remaining members of the Wild Bunch and seriously wound Hank.

Jesse and Hank escape and stop at the Lopez's campout to tend to Hank's wound and sleep until the morning. During the middle of the night, Juanita wakes up Jesse and Hank and leads them back to town to the Frankensteins' house to fix up Hank despite her parents forbidding her to go back there. Maria agrees to help, and even covers for her guests when the sheriff and Lonny come around looking for them, but her actual plan is to use Hank as another one of her experiments. After a failed attempt to seduce Jesse, Maria sends him to the town pharmacist with a note, then begins operating on Hank, giving him an artificial new brain and bringing him back to life. Rudolph tries to poison Hank, now called Igor, but Maria catches him this time and orders her new monster to strangle her brother.

Jesse gives the pharmacist the note from Maria, which actually reveals his identity, prompting the pharmacist to call the sheriff. The sheriff is out, but his deputy Lonny decides to take on Jesse for the reward on his head. Jesse manages to escape, killing Lonny in the process. When he returns to the Frankensteins' house, Igor incapacitates him and ties him up.

Realizing Jesse is in trouble, Juanita sends the sheriff to the house, where he finds Jesse and prepares to take him in. But Maria sends Igor to crush the sheriff. During the scuffle, Juanita frees Jesse and tries to escape. Maria orders Igor to go kill Juanita, but he strangles Maria instead and goes after Jesse. Juanita gets the sheriff's gun and kills Igor.

The next morning, as Jesse buries Hank, Juanita pleads with him to stay and live with her, but Jesse, knowing that he is a fugitive, rides off with the sheriff, who was not killed by Igor.

Beat ya to it !!

 

[TallTallMan]

View attachment 508292

@RedRover This is your cue!

Here's the Wikipedia description:

Sometime in the early 1880s, Dr Frankenstein's evil granddaughter Maria has moved to the American West with her brother Rudolph, in order to use the prairie lightning storms in her experiments on immigrant children snatched from a dying town. Maria is very much in charge, killing the children and replacing their brains with artificial ones, intending to revive them as her slaves. Rudolph, however, is reluctant to help his sister, but is too afraid of her to do otherwise. After a number of failures (owing to Rudolph secretly poisoning the victims as soon as his sister revives them), they are finding it increasingly difficult to hide the trail of bodies. Down the road, Mañuel Lopez and his wife Nina decide to leave town with their daughter Juanita because of the frequent disappearances, the latest of which is that of their son.

Two gunslingers come to town, Jesse James, the infamous outlaw, who has actually survived his reported killing on April 3, 1882, and Hank Tracy, a dimwitted brute that Jesse uses as his henchman. Meeting up with Butch Curry, the head of a local gang called The Wild Bunch, they join up with the intention of stealing $100,000 from the next stagecoach. However, a member of the gang, Butch's own brother Lonny, decides to go to the sheriff and let him know about the plot in exchange for becoming his deputy and claiming the reward for James' capture. As the robbery begins, the sheriff and his men shoot the two remaining members of the Wild Bunch and seriously wound Hank.

Jesse and Hank escape and stop at the Lopez's campout to tend to Hank's wound and sleep until the morning. During the middle of the night, Juanita wakes up Jesse and Hank and leads them back to town to the Frankensteins' house to fix up Hank despite her parents forbidding her to go back there. Maria agrees to help, and even covers for her guests when the sheriff and Lonny come around looking for them, but her actual plan is to use Hank as another one of her experiments. After a failed attempt to seduce Jesse, Maria sends him to the town pharmacist with a note, then begins operating on Hank, giving him an artificial new brain and bringing him back to life. Rudolph tries to poison Hank, now called Igor, but Maria catches him this time and orders her new monster to strangle her brother.

Jesse gives the pharmacist the note from Maria, which actually reveals his identity, prompting the pharmacist to call the sheriff. The sheriff is out, but his deputy Lonny decides to take on Jesse for the reward on his head. Jesse manages to escape, killing Lonny in the process. When he returns to the Frankensteins' house, Igor incapacitates him and ties him up.

Realizing Jesse is in trouble, Juanita sends the sheriff to the house, where he finds Jesse and prepares to take him in. But Maria sends Igor to crush the sheriff. During the scuffle, Juanita frees Jesse and tries to escape. Maria orders Igor to go kill Juanita, but he strangles Maria instead and goes after Jesse. Juanita gets the sheriff's gun and kills Igor.

The next morning, as Jesse buries Hank, Juanita pleads with him to stay and live with her, but Jesse, knowing that he is a fugitive, rides off with the sheriff, who was not killed by Igor.

Wait..."The Wild Bunch"? Guess it's what Pike and Dutch were doing in "the old days"!

 

[Kurtlg]

Wait..."The Wild Bunch"? Guess it's what Pike and Dutch were doing in "the old days"!

View attachment 508308

So is Butch Curry related to Butch Cassidy or is he related to Kid Curry ?

 

[archieclement]

@DanSBHawk @archieclement Let's please stop with Mr. Brown. My blood pressure's going up.

I agree, I pointed out earlier thread isn't about John Brown.........

 

[TallTallMan]

I agree, I pointed out earlier thread isn't about John Brown.........

He is not a favorite of mine so please no!!!

 

[archieclement]

No, I am talking today. And you cross your arms and close your eyes all you want, but I think I have provided more than enough info that modern perceptions have moved away from your 1950's era romantic vision that he is viewed in America as a hero like Daniel Boone or Davey Crockett.

Again I never advanced any personal romantic vision at all.

All I actually said in context to JJ being viewed a hero was that certainly historically he was.

Seems to still be the way he's referenced in song still.

The tilting windmills get old, but can't reference "50's romantic vision" or Robin Hood myths without actually acknowledging what I said, he certainly was viewed a folk hero historically....

 

[TallTallMan]

To get off the Pottawatomie Pooper...

Did Jesse ever kill in cold blood? Murder is still murder when robbing a bank or train, but did he ever just shoot somebody?

 

[TallTallMan]

I always start singing the refrain to this song when I think of Jesse. In fact, the current codename for my book is "I Ain't Cut Out to Be No Jesse James."

 

[archieclement]

I just find funny personally when some suggest they are viewed more outlaw today, I tend to disagree they always have been.

The reality is at time figures like Jesse James or Bonnie and Clyde were also mentioned, sometimes catch the publics imagination. The same reason fictional movies like Outlaw Josey Wales or Unforgiven do. Most people have a small part of them that wishes they were more rebel/outlaw/vigilante rather then always being conformist.

 

[7thWisconsin]

I wonder how many folks heard much of Crockett before the Disney programs in the 1950s. Sadly I think some folks considered Disney true history.

Walt Disney considered Davy Crockett to be a lost American folk hero and that he was restoring him from obscurity. I honestly don´t think any of these historical persons have much cultural impact anymore. I´m biased: I´ve visited the Boone homestead in Pennsylvania, Boonesborough in Kentucky, the Crockett cabin in Tennessee and the James house in St Jo, so they´re interesting historical characters to me. To others they might be a shorthand way of saying ¨crack shot¨ or ¨wild outlaw.¨ BTW - Cole Younger´s memoir is an engaging read, accuracy be darned.

 

[archieclement]

One the folk heros who most has fell to obscurity is John Smith T......during his life he was well known.

He was quick to anger and challenge people to formal duels, as his reputation grew many declined.........but he went 14-0

Kinda defies laws of averages

 

[Belfoured]

Kinda like how the public embraced Bonnie and Clyde, when in reality Clyde was a psychopathic killer. Thousands showed up at both their funerals. But I think public perception on James and Bonnie and Clyde is changing. I think the general public has a better understanding these days that they were just criminal and killers, and their public persona has nothing to do with reality. I really dont think these days that James is viewed on a par with Boone and Crockett. People are more educated about him these days.

Oddly enough, I think John Brown's rep, who was also a psycho, tends to be improving since he was on the "right side" of history, despite the fact he was a serial killer. Funny how perceptions change over time.

Interesting paper that describes how James' public perception has changed over time as depicted in popular culture (i.e., movies), from an early movie that is basically a love story about James, to a movie in the 50's that removed the hero and looked at him as a flawed psychological actor, to a film from the 1970's that depicts more as a blood thirsty killer who is obsessed with his revenge and his legend.

https://digitalcommons.library.umaine.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1196&context=etd

Good point about Clyde Barrow. The same thing happened with John Dillinger. James was a criminal and killer like them. Despite that they all acquired some sort of status as folk heroes for a time. But that doesn't change who and what they actually were, and eventually people seem to figure that out.

 

[TallTallMan]

Walt Disney considered Davy Crockett to be a lost American folk hero and that he was restoring him from obscurity. I honestly don´t think any of these historical persons have much cultural impact anymore. I´m biased: I´ve visited the Boone homestead in Pennsylvania, Boonesborough in Kentucky, the Crockett cabin in Tennessee and the James house in St Jo, so they´re interesting historical characters to me. To others they might be a shorthand way of saying ¨crack shot¨ or ¨wild outlaw.¨ BTW - Cole Younger´s memoir is an engaging read, accuracy be darned.

Per some of his biographies, someone chose him at random among other American folklore heroes.